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Thread: The road to mostly negative

  1. #1
    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad
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    Exclamation The road to mostly negative

    I wanted to write something about the current alpha that is my personal unbiased opinion, so I haven't read anything from others yet. This means that a lot of what I write here is already mentioned by others.

    First of all, my expectations. Planet Nomads will be a game where you crash on a planet and have to survive long enough to rebuild your technology to get away again. This requires building one or more bases and several forms of transportation in order to find the materials you need. Possibly even orbital or interplanitary vehicles to gather the rarest resources needed to reach the ultimate goal, building a ship to continue the journey home. An idea that has potential for a fun and engaging game.

    Obviously I have no expectation that we are there yet.

    First time. I hop into a survival game. Find myself in a pod and get out. I marvel at the beauty of the surroundings until I see something move. It's a little critter. Then it spits at me and I make a big bounce backward. Bounce? A bit weird, but probably a placeholder. Before I know it the next critter gets me and one minute into the game I am dead. I respawn and try the magic multitool on the first critter that comes close. It works! It is dead! But with my own health at 10% now, I am soon to follow. After a failed attempt to do stuff while avoiding them I give up.

    Next world.

    Yay! No critters! Some cow like beasts though. They also get aggressive when you get close, but they're easier to avoid. I do some chores and build my first devices. I find that I now have to use the C key to connect electricity instead of build vision, which now comes on automatically when you build something. I liked the clarity of the build vision with "tab" better to be honest.

    Man building objects is a lot of work. I run around for ages trying to find rocks with resources until I wise up and dig around for ages instead. I come back to my 3d printer, but two cows are standing next to them. I have no choice but to get rid of them. Unfortunately, that sounds easier than it actually is. With the battery thing and the long time needed to actually put them down, I have no chance and die. I respawn and try again. Fail. I give up on this world.

    Now I realised something. I'm not entertained, I'm annoyed. While I understand that the animal stuff is not finished, what is happening is quite the opposite. The whole "if close then bump" and animals turning around on a dime without animation at all is something from 20 years ago. It really degrades the experience and their presence is just annoying right now.

    New version (0.4.3), new world!

    I see some deer like animals at some distance. I decide to build right next to the impact crater as to avoid them. I get to work. I get hungry. Best get some food. Ehm, where are those nice fireflies that were so helpful last time. I jetpack around a little, but find nothing and almost get lost. Best make a beacon before I try again. I venture further and further. I like the jetpack mechanic! It lets you move quickly once you get used to it. Now back. Where's the beacon? I don't see it. I don't recognise anything. there really aren't many distinct features in the game world by which you can navigate. It's hopeless, another attempt foiled.

    My conclusion after another attempt: beacons are useless. I expect them to be visible from a long distance, but they're not. In fact, the tries appear taller than the light beam from the beacon. And honestly, with all that tech the least thing you'd expect is that beacons have a homing signal allowing you to see them on you compass. In fact, I think it would be a good thing to let beacons have a custom RGB colour so that you can have a matching RGB dot (possibly with size representing distance) on your compass.

    After that I stopped trying Survival for a while and went to creative. I'll skip that.

    Some downtime later, I try survival again. Another world and this time no animals and four fruit bearing bushes visible from the crash site. Jackpot! Suffice to say, food was not going to be a problem this time around and I could focus on building.

    Having the foundation first in the list is good and I can try to do it right from the start. Mineable resources in the crater, so I start. But dear lord, this is annoying. 10 seconds shooting the multitool, 10 seconds waiting for it to "charge". Charge? Really? What on earth is this mechanic good for anyway? It's completely unrealistic and it does nothing but delay. And to say that it is annoying is not doing it justice. If I wasn't alpha testing, that alone would have made me quit and refund the game. Seriously, this nonsense needs to go. If needed, replace it with a buildable battery pack that would last you a couple of days.

    For the sake of testing, I carry on. I continue to make some more floor space and put down another four foundations. I have an inventory full of mined resources, so I put those in the containers and let the 3d printer work on the components. Wow, that thing is slow. You know what, I'll take a nap in the statis chamber for 8 hours. I get up again. What? Still not entirely done? What's with all this artificial waiting? Ugh.

    I go for extending the base with some walls. I need to position a corner at the corner. But the game now requires me to be at a certain distance from the place where I need to put it. I can't see what I'm doing an place it in the wrong location. After too much fiddling, I get it right. Finally, now walls. I need frames. A LOT of frames. I print and wait. And wait. No to place them. But this is just tedious. I need to stand a the right place. I need to try place them in a row, but this is hard. I need to walk behind my machines accross the edge and try to judge when I'm aligned. But the blacked part with green outline gives you no clue at all and I regularly leave an empty space.

    I try for something a little more complex. What do I need again? After making the wrong ingredients because I couldn't be arsed to write down the things I needed. Gee, why do I need to remember that stuff anyway? This is a computer, I should be able to put down the parts with frames and have the requirements added to the queue automatically. This is supposed to be a game, not chores. At that point I give up, I'm not enjoying myself.


    Verdict: this game sucks.


    Now, this may sound overly harsh for an early alpha release. And if it really was that early, I would agree. But this game is going to be on early access next week and I can guarantee that what EA reviewers are going to say is a lot worse than I did. This game is simply not ready for early access. Besides the graphics, everything in the game feels like a tech demo. Which makes me not so optimistic about the future of the game. Even in early access, first impressions are everything. But currently I expect the game to get hammered in reviews so badly, that it can't ever recover. If it were up to me, I'd cancel early access for now, because it would be a shame if all the work so far was wasted due to a premature release.

    There are many things I haven't tried. And in its current state, I won't. Since there are no vehicles, I haven't seen any other biomes either. That'll have to wait for the update. Of course, without a way to get back, exploring is probably suicide anyway.


    I'll end with a list of comments:

    1. Starting locations are too random. It's either too easy or too hard to survive.
    2. World looks very nice, there's little varienty within the biome. You can't distinguish one place from another.
    3. Animals are... just weird. Placeholder AI, I suppose.
    4. The multitool "battery" delay mechanic needs to go. It's just irritating.
    5. Mining is ok, but randomly digging for resources is not. One of the first things you should be able to do is build a scanner to help you point you into the right direction.
    6. Building should be easy and intuitive.
    6.1 No manual bookkeeping of stuff you need. Provide a different way to create a "shopping list".
    6.2 The black objects with red/yellow/green outlines give no sense of depth. Make it much clearer to see where you are placing objects.
    6.3 Placing at a fixed distance is a really bad choice. The previous "add to side" method was much better. It just needed to be extended with a way to align them when it needed to attach to a blind side.
    6.4 You should be able to build directly from the block list instead of having to put them in the number slots.
    7. Objects dropped in "boxes" disappear waaaay too quickly. I dropped some resources because the food creator needed me to move objects from its output to my inventory before it would do the next step. Tried to find my resources afterwards and they were gone.
    8. Beacons need to be .... beacons.


    (I may edit this list a few times in the coming week)

  2. #2
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    Very good review - I think we do need honest, negative reviews for a game to succeed. I suspect that most people simply don't post anything here if they generally dislike the game, which can give false impressions to the dev team pertaining how players (will) perceive the game.

    I had very similar experience as you; I needed quite some time and had to let go of a lot of expectations to be able to enjoy the game – and only after that I was able to see that there is a lot of potential. The weak first impressions are quite distracting, and it's not too fortunate that there are a lot of differences compared to the trailer video. And yes, I've read a lot of what you mention in other reviews too (and also mentioned them in my own), but I think it's helpful for the team to see the same issues being mentioned in a lot of reviews, as it can help them to prioritize what to improve.

    But I have the feeling that the team also realizes that the game is not in a very good state currently, and this is why their approach to the launch seems to be cautious (i.e. they don't spend all their marketing budget advertising the "big" launch).

    I think it's possible that, if they manage to give the right marketing spin to the game, they can successfully start to sell it in early access to get some funding. But I agree that if they oversell it in the videos, etc. (which the trailer video does, by the way), then the reception can be quite disastrous. What they should probably do is to emphasize that they know the game is not good yet, but they are in the long haul, they listen to the community, and they will improve and extend the survival gameplay mechanics significantly.

    Also, maybe they could try to emphasize the building aspect of the game instead of the survival, because survival players most likely expect a lot more gameplay complexity, but builder players seem to be more or less used to sandbox games, and the building is not bad per se (they just need to improve the block placement).
    Last edited by GaborB; 11-04-2017 at 12:43 PM.

  3. #3
    Kickstarter Builder Nomad Azirahael's Avatar
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    Well, some thought went into this review, obviously.

    But, it all seems to be 'this pre-release super-early alpha is not finished!'

    I mean, almost everything you've complained about is really obvious.
    I can almost guarantee that the devs are aware of, and have plans to fix every single point.

    but you seem to forget: this isn't even early access. this is like 1st possible playable build.
    No one in their right mind would release this to the public.
    Which is why the only people who can access this game at this insanely early stage, are the alpha backers.

    "This is a computer, I should be able to put down the parts with frames and have the requirements added to the queue automatically." yeah. eventually.
    Don't forget, this game is in such an insanely primitive state, that only just now was the ability to get hurt even added.


    I guess what i'm saying is: all your complaints are valid, but the phrasing suggests you were expecting them to be done at this stage, which is wildly unrealistic.


    *"
    This game is simply not ready for early access."* Yes. Because you are not playing the game that's going on early access.
    You are playing the game that they used to figure out what to fix for early access.

  4. #4
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    Tbh I started to have the impression that the game will be released in early access with little modifications to what we see currently (besides the next update with the vehicle parts, compass, etc.). I mean, even if they really want to improve it before EA launch, if they keep the April 18 deadline then they have only around one week to work on it, which is not enough for a lot. But maybe we will be surprised, I have no idea.

  5. #5
    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ehvis View Post
    Verdict: this game sucks.
    No, it doesn't and that's a very harsh assessment of the game at this stage. If you truly understood the software development life cycle you would understand what alpha release means. Not to crap on your review, it does have important points - as feedback as a user experience, but do not denigrate the efforts of the developers with such a simplistic verdict. And it is not a bloody "tech demo". That really is punching below the belt and uncalled for.

    Is the game playable? Yes.
    Is it enjoyable? Sort of.
    Is it buggy? Yes.
    Does it need improvement in many areas? Yes
    Is it ready for EA? Maybe.
    Does it need user feedback and bug reports? Yes.

    Alpha access and even early access are a privilege, not a right. If you are old enough you might remember that such an opportunity never existed for the average gamer until a few years ago. All you got was a finished game (mostly) and then patches. Before that, games came out on disks (floppy disks even) and there were NO updates. You lived with what you bought.

    Small, independent game developers have to expose their work very early to gain funds to further their work. It's a tough thing to do and they can't get it all nice and shiny and perfect at every stage. They just don't have the resources or money like a AAA developer, so cut them some slack. Put yourself in their shoes and see how you like your hours and hours of work critically reviewed when you know it isn't finished and most of your audience don't even understand what it has taken to get it where it is and can't appreciate that fact.

    I'm sorry for being so harsh, but as a developer of commercial software myself (not game related), I get so annoyed by those that just don't understand either the industry or what it takes to produce software for general consumption.

  6. #6
    Member Maslostroj (Daniel)'s Avatar
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    Ehvis thanks a notch. Just like Gabor says negative feedback is good.

    You'll find some you concerns addressed in the current patch (0.5.0), while for others (building system) we'll have to wait a bit longer what other players have to say about that. Changing a building system is not a few-days work, so want to be sure which direction to take.

    We understand the "battery" mechanic is frustrating at the beginning - that's because the basic level of the tool (that shares energy with torch and jetpack and the suit) should just be used as an emergency, last-resort solution - the next MKs of the tool use their own "ammo".
    "Well, I thought. This is how the world works. All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
    -Raoul Duke

  7. #7
    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maslostroj View Post
    Ehvis thanks a notch. Just like Gabor says negative feedback is good.

    You'll find some you concerns addressed in the current patch (0.5.0), while for others (building system) we'll have to wait a bit longer what other players have to say about that. Changing a building system is not a few-days work, so want to be sure which direction to take.

    We understand the "battery" mechanic is frustrating at the beginning - that's because the basic level of the tool (that shares energy with torch and jetpack and the suit) should just be used as an emergency, last-resort solution - the next MKs of the tool use their own "ammo".
    But a frustrating mechanic should never be in a game. You'd be better off mining at half speed and not having to wait.

    I just started a new game in 0.5.0. I started dinging for resources, couldn't find any. Eventually I spent 30 minutes digging around. That was 15 minutes just waiting and doing nothing. There's nothing I can do about that since higher level tools are far away.

    As for "EA ready". In the 1.5 hour attempt I had:
    - A spot without resources (seed LastAlpha)
    - Built a vehicle in creative that got stuck on nothing 5 meters from where it was built.
    - Flew some distance away with the jetpack instead and fell right through the ground when trying to land. And in fact couldn't land anywhere anymore. (except into the water under the ground)
    - On respawn the "generating" bar got stuck at 99% and the game was effectively locked.

    This sort of stuff should not be happening by the time a game hits EA.

    To be brutally honest, I don't think Craneballs handled the alpha period very well. This is the time to be updating at very high frequency. If something breaks, so be it. Instead, there were only a few changes while doing big "internal" changes. Which eventually got released a few weeks ago without any time to properly test things and the time to get things fixed has run out.

    Obviously I'll do some more testing on the specific problems over the Easter weekend and create some bug reports for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMartian View Post
    No, it doesn't and that's a very harsh assessment of the game at this stage. If you truly understood the software development life cycle you would understand what alpha release means.
    I'm not trying to cuddle the software development process here. I'm trying to express what somebody who just got the game in early access (which is a few days away) is going say. Except I added the whole reasoning before it.

  8. #8
    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad JUNKASAURUS's Avatar
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    The building blocks mechanics is completely ruined, trash, broken, you name it (including the new build vision system). I will be writing my review after April 18, my thoughts, suggestions and hopes for improvement. I don't want to write anything right now because I want to see how Early Access will be like. I'm hoping it is what Azirahael is saying (I hardly doubt it though).


    Craneballs, what were you guys trying to do when you decided to remake that block placement system? It is so bad right now that I'm even wondering if you guys built anything with it or even bug tested it. I seriously don't know how you guys built anything with it, specially on the first alpha opt in.


    The old system was just right, all it needed was...


    for the blocks to stop turning back to its default position every time you placed a block,
    a way to lock angles so that you could pick an angle and just keep building with it,
    a way to build on top of blocks when you were below the view (I suggested a simple fix for it),
    a way to place a block on the side of the one you were standing (I suggested a simple fix for it),
    and drag to build multiple blocks/drag to delete.


    The block placement is so messed up right now, that I stopped playing mainly because of it.


    Please put the old system back with the changes I mentioned above.

  9. #9
    Member Maslostroj (Daniel)'s Avatar
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    Junkasaurus, you have spent a lot of time building things, isn't it the fact that you got used to the old system that's ruining it for you now?

    We're staying open minded to suggestions (and thanks for those), but the new building system addresses exactly the points you mention.

    Unfortunately fixing the issues you mention was all but simple fixes - the way the system worked was simply point at a surface and place, no simply workaround that.

    The current system works with vicinity of blocks and approximates the distance to the nearest point where it could it be placed. Could it use improving? Very likely so. We'll surely keep listening to the community and do what we can to address general gripes and issues.
    "Well, I thought. This is how the world works. All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
    -Raoul Duke

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maslostroj View Post
    Junkasaurus, you have spent a lot of time building things, isn't it the fact that you got used to the old system that's ruining it for you now?

    We're staying open minded to suggestions (and thanks for those), but the new building system addresses exactly the points you mention.

    Unfortunately fixing the issues you mention was all but simple fixes - the way the system worked was simply point at a surface and place, no simply workaround that.

    The current system works with vicinity of blocks and approximates the distance to the nearest point where it could it be placed. Could it use improving? Very likely so. We'll surely keep listening to the community and do what we can to address general gripes and issues.
    I think what it needs is just to decrease the distance to the nearest placed block when the block outline would otherwise intersect with it. I'm almost sure that most of the frustration comes from the block outline "going into" the already placed blocks.

  11. #11
    Member Maslostroj (Daniel)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaborB View Post
    I think what it needs is just to decrease the distance to the nearest placed block when the block outline would otherwise intersect with it. I'm almost sure that most of the frustration comes from the block outline "going into" the already placed blocks.
    We'll see about that pretty soon, as that's the next thing happening.
    "Well, I thought. This is how the world works. All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
    -Raoul Duke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maslostroj View Post
    We'll see about that pretty soon, as that's the next thing happening.
    Cool. Btw, as I mentioned in another topic, the last update is great! The very first impressions are hugely improved with that nice drop pod, and there are a lot of small improvements all over the game to make it feel more polished. I'm glad with the food item rebalancing too, as now it makes sense to use the FAD machine. I think the dried foods and the bio paste were great ideas (being able to use the bio containers for food can help a lot with less lucky world seeds).

  13. #13
    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad
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    I don't agree that the game sucks, but I see where Ehvis is coming from. When a game is released on Steam as Early Access, there are a lot of people who treat it as a finished product.
    Reviews can be harsh, even though it's an unfinished game, and the issues they are complaining about will be addressed. And people tend not to change their review later. In it's current state, you may even get people trying it for 2hrs, then refunding and leaving a bad review.
    I don't want to see this game fail, but a poor rating can kill a game.

    Having said all that, you guys are professionals, so I hope/trust you know what you are doing.

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    Coming from another EA title (Space Engineers)
    and I understand what OP is saying. People will complain for everything, some people doesn't even know what EA means. Even funny, some people does know, but still, they will complain, rage, and post negative things.
    Seriously Devs be careful, I just tested the alpha 0.50 (thanks for the key btw ) and the game seems to be too early to release to the public, performance is very poor, NPCs are not good enough, resources auto respawning, etc. and some people thinks this games should work in laptops with a 970m video card, and then when you tell them that the 970m have half or less performance than a GTX970 they get mad at you lol
    Anyways, good luck at the releasing day! and patience, a lot of patience people :p

  15. #15
    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad JUNKASAURUS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maslostroj View Post
    Junkasaurus, you have spent a lot of time building things, isn't it the fact that you got used to the old system that's ruining it for you now?
    I actually wish that that was the case, since I would not mind getting used to the new system while I build things. The problem is that the more I build, the more I get frustrated with the new building system. You see, when I was using the editor, it was simple, point and click to add, click and drag to build multiple, and right click to delete. It took me a few seconds to learn how to do it right. When the alpha came out, it was also simple to build. Since I had already used the editor, it was very simple to use, except it no longer had the click-drag to multi-build. Building was easy. The hard parts was having to build scaffolds all the time (since there was no hover like the editor), the auto-to-default scheme, and the inability to place blocks in areas where you couldn't see the face of the blocks.
    Now, I can barely build, period.

    Before, I could stay afar from the place I wanted to build, and see the block that I was going to place. Once I had the first block, all I had to do is point the cursor at the face of that block and click to place another one. Now, I have to stay very close to the area I want to build. I can't be in third person because it messes it up. The block outline shows right in front of my character. The outline is distracting, and in many cases I can't tell the angle that the actual block is facing from the outline alone (like the suspension). I have to keep searching for a place where the game grants me the right to place the block. Now, there is no indicators where blocks will be removed either, so that makes it extra hard to edit designs.

    I've watched videos from people that played Planet Nomads Early Alpha 3-3.03, and it didn't take them too long to figure the system out. Although it did take them some time to learn how to build a vehicle (mainly because of the arrow system of tires and also because of build vision). Now, I watched some videos, and you can clearly see that people are having trouble placing blocks, which wasn't a problem before.

    My frustration comes from my desire to see this game succeed. This game has been all that I have played in the past months, and all that I've been wanting to play. You can see it from my videos. And it was the "build whatever you want" part that made me enjoy it so much. Although I was a little bit anxious to see the survival part of the game, it has always been the freedom to build that really excited me. But now the building part is completely messed up and the survival part is nothing what I had pictured.

    The people that will be playing this game in 5 days will have an even more difficult time with the building system since they never played the game before.

    So I would suggest a third tier in the game, which is the "Bug Testing" tier. Creative Mode, Survival Mode, and Bug Testing tiers. Then, those that want to try the new systems and updates to the game will create a world in that tier to test the game for you guys. The Creative/Survival should only use systems that have been proven to work. This is how software development works as well. When you go to download a software, there is the Lastest Version (which they label as unstable) and the Last Version (bug tested/stable). As a safe-guard I think that PN should have the same thing. That way, you will not get a bad review during your Early Access. Put the things in the 2 tiers that you know works well, and have new systems on the Bug Testing tier, and when it's stable, release an update with the implementation.

  16. #16
    Member Maslostroj (Daniel)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUNKASAURUS View Post
    ...
    We hate to see you this frustrated by the new building system, especially because of all the hours you've spent with Planet Nomads. We've watched your videos with awe, frustration (from you finding and exploiting every bug conceivable), praise (for the same thing, so we could fix them) and also the good 'ole fun.

    Let's not lose hope here though! The most frustrating issue about the fixed distance... will be fixed before EA! Together with improved snapping.

    We'll be keenly awaiting how you feel about that.

    As for the "Bug Testing Tier" - putting that directly into the game would do no good. It seems self-explanatory, but there would still be people playing that mode without realizing what it means. So for the testing purposes we'll continue using Steam's lovely feature of having a BETA branch that people can opt-in too - most beta testers know about it by now and understand what they are getting themselves into

    Also now that the game has taken more solid shape it will be easier to add new features (simple ones, that can be tested and perceived and evaluated right away whether they are good or bad). That wasn't really possible with survival that took all those months from Alpha 0.3.x.

    The same goes for the building - it's not finished yet, and still most people don't like it already. If we shared the initial version of that, it would be a no go right from the start - not to mention it just didn't work in all scenarios by then. Can't really betatest a car with three wheels, eh?

    So hang with us a bit longer and know that we want the same thing.

    Btw, what's your main gripe with survival?
    Quote Originally Posted by JUNKASAURUS View Post
    the survival part is nothing what I had pictured.
    "Well, I thought. This is how the world works. All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
    -Raoul Duke

  17. #17
    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad JUNKASAURUS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maslostroj (Daniel) View Post
    Btw, what's your main gripe with survival?
    Repetitive.
    The build this to unlock the next build to me is annoying. Things could be organized in tiers with some basic builds already unlocked.
    The whole idea of building to fill virtual boxes. Meaning, you build things but you get nothing tangible. It's all data.
    Other than being able to build vehicles, everything else is just visuals and not features.
    Animals standing next to monuments (crystals). Creatures should be roaming and not constrained to an area. They should be moving around their biome and some on specific areas, like fish in ponds, and bats in caves.
    AI is without any brain. Right now, they are pretty dumb. Here is how they need to eventually get to, or similar, (start at 3:32 - 4:05) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOIzH6UcoW4
    The collision system is illogical (the push in the air, the sound, and the damage it does). A knock-back would feel more natural than a knock in the air. And a bashing noise would sound better than a wind sound. The damage system needs a bit of work. Maybe some sparks to show you're taking damage. Some minor visor scratches. Stuff like that. And if really injured, then some minor blood stains in the visor.
    Not much creature variety per biome.
    Same attack schemes. All creatures pretty much attack the same way.
    I don't have a projectile gun. That to me is a given. I'm hoping EA has one, since that is what you showed on your trailer.
    Beaming everything. That beam gun should be an upgrade for those areas that it would fit best, like inside caves (digging ceiling), and inside water.
    Days too short still. Days should be longer so that people have more time to do things.
    I think the menus need work. Your menu system was a lot clearer back on your Editor build.
    The font is tiny.
    Can't tell the difference between minerals and some of the produced parts. Iron looks like every other mineral.
    And the crafting system is a bit confusing at the start. Maybe it's just me.
    I personally don't like the building parts to build machines. I like better the mineral quantity scheme. Like I mentioned in the post, a suspension would require 50 iron, 20 titanium, 10 aluminum, instead of 3 frames, 2 circuit, 1 plates, stuff like that. Maybe higher machines could use the part combination scheme. I just found it a bit confusing and hard to remember. The mineral quantity scheme is easier to remember in my opinion.


    For me upgrades in the menu, should be new things to do (features), and not just permission to build something else.
    New features like, new weapons, new armors, new helmets (allow you to stay under water longer), new tech (like night vision goggles, mineral scanners), stuff like that. Upgrades = new features and not just permission to build something else.

    How hard would it be to do this https://forum.planet-nomads.com/thre...urces-in-0-5-0 Read post #16 or the entire thing.

    Just keep in mind that some players don't want the game to be "more" complicated (even though I don't see it as that). I would say, make the game like the majority wants it to be like, and give the modding ability for those that wish it to be "more complex", like me.



    The way that I would enjoy the survival is if you started with a gun, basic blocks, some minerals, and a select of things unlocked. Make some machines to unlock others. Example: You start with the building parts unlocked to build a vehicle, but not with the minerals count to make it. Then you can upgrade a machine to grant you more parts to build a better engine, better wheels, better batteries, bigger cargo, stuff like that. Then the next machine upgrade of that tier (there would be the vehicle tier) would grant you another level of vehicle, and etc. Check with the community if this is what they want to see.


    What will modders be allowed to do in the game? Will they be allowed to do what I mentioned in that post? Please answer this.



    I'm sorry if I am coming across harsh, but this is how I envision games. Picture Mess Effect with PN combined. Without the tired faces of course! LOL


    I think I might be upsetting some people. So from now on I will stay quiet. On April 18 I will be trying out the game. I really do wish you guys great success.


    If you guys don't see me much in the forums it's because I am studying, and not because I'm upset with you guys. Looking forward for that building system fix. Thank you Craneballs!


    You know what, if you guys add the three things I asked way back, I won't care what you guys do to survival, I'll just stay in creative. I asked for springs, magnets, and foot switches. Rods would help, the bearings being able to attach from both ends, same with the hinges. But yeah, those 3 things would make my day.
    Last edited by JUNKASAURUS; 17-04-2017 at 03:16 AM.

  18. #18
    Member Maslostroj (Daniel)'s Avatar
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    Thanks for the details. What you say makes sense (most of the time for sure). There seems to be one misconception on your side though - most of the features you mention, better AI, material tiers, more animals, better animal AI, more functional blocks... all that is something we want for sure (and I think as well as the rest of the community), but when we say "feature X will take time" we don't mean days, we don't mean weeks, we're talking months.

    The misconception is especially noticeable, when you give a game like Mass Effect Andromeda as an example of good AI. Of course we'd want that too! If you check that game's credits it must have several hundred names there. Wikipedia says Bioware (the developers of the game) were 800 people big in 2010. One article states nearly 200 people worked on MAE, but since that was January 2015, I'm pretty sure it must have grown torwards release. The started working on MAE in 2012. So hundreds of people and 5 years to create the game, and it still ended with tired faces.

    Now PN is 11 people and 2 years of work.

    So that's why we're going Early Access to be able to finance the growth of our team and the game. It's going to be several months of PN growing up. Then we can have lovely things like 30 materials and 10 tiers of technology and dozen types of helmets, etc. At this point we're trying to put together a viable minimum that's fun to play. And we're noticing we're coming short of that, but it won't be that long to get there. And then, we can expand the vision further.


    Quote Originally Posted by JUNKASAURUS View Post
    What will modders be allowed to do in the game? Will they be allowed to do what I mentioned in that post? Please answer this.
    ...
    The simplest answer is - we don't know. We don't know just yet, but it's very much tied to my previous point - development takes time. If we can get modders to work for Planet Nomads and improve the game, we want to give them as much freedom as possible. To create their own items, blocks and recipes (materials needed for each block/items), etc. As to what they will create we have no way of knowing - same is we had no idea what you'd come up with in your alpha creations.

    This is not an emotionally loaded post, and we're for sure not trying to say "how dare you", just putting things into some perspective.

    Good luck with the studies and hope to see you around again soon.
    "Well, I thought. This is how the world works. All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
    -Raoul Duke

  19. #19
    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad JUNKASAURUS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maslostroj (Daniel) View Post
    : D
    Thank you for the response : ) .


    Concerning the tiers, what I would like to see is this:

    You start with some vehicle parts unlocked, some base building parts unlocked, some basic machines unlocked (like the 3d printer and the armor and weapon machine upgrade).
    So the tiers would be set to these categories:

    Vehicles
    Structures
    Upgrades
    Consumables (food processors and purifiers)

    So let's say I'm more of a driver than I am a fighter. I like to stop by, get what I want and hurry out of there. Then I would build the Vehicles Machine which would provide me vehicle blocks and upgrades that fit my driving gameplay. But let's say someone else is more of a fighter, he likes to go out there a take on the danger head-on. So he would build the Upgrades Machine. He would still have a basic car, but he would focus on upgrading his weapon (energy, distance, damage) and armor (energy, durability, jetpack).
    All this using your "current" machines, icons and blocks. With the Upgrades Machine, just the weapon/armor levels would increase with each upgrade. All the player would be doing is enhancing the area that he needs fit for his gameplay. Then, maybe later on (months) in the development, add grenades, better weapons, different helmets and so forth.

    So instead of me spending time and resources upgrading machines that I will never use, I can upgrade those tiers and tools that is fit for my gameplay, even if the upgrade makes me get something that I didn't care about. For example:

    Let's say that the Vehicles tier has square block, suspension, cockpit, battery and tire, unlocked right from the start. Then I can build a Vehicles Machine that would say, "next upgrade on the Vehicles tier requires 10 iron, 5 copper, 2 silver". When I upgrade it, it would grant me basic headlights, level 2 batteries (longer lasting), and glass plates (each item having a mineral cost). Then the next upgrade grants corner block and ramp. I might not care for those 2 on that upgrade, but I might care for the upgrade that comes after it; bearings, hinges. So I would still upgrade it to get the next level of the upgrades. This would make more sense to me and it is more intuitive. The upgrades could be expensive, but the items themselves be cheap, or the other way around.
    I hope this makes sense. So no "new" functional blocks, icons, machines really needed here, it's mainly how the building and upgrades is executed. This would feel more meaningful to me.
    Then as development goes further in the beta, then new features and items can be implemented.


    Creatures:
    I think the Godillo is the best creature design you guys made so far and also my favorite creature. I love the look, the animation, the mechanic of it throwing a stone. It fits the environment perfectly.
    So what I would like to see, is more of them around the biome. I would really like if it was roaming the biome, and not stationary. For me, it would feel more natural. Then, players can make barriers to keep certain creatures away from their home base. Base building would also make more sense with creatures roaming the world.

    Concerning their attacking scheme:
    Right now, if you guys just add a bashing sound, a knock-back effect (for when it strikes you with its head or with the stone), sparks to simulate damage and/or visor scratches, it would be just right. Oh yeah, and fix the damage through walls, the creature facing opposite from the throwing, and the no creature drowning bugs.


    I don't like the idea of getting multiple rare minerals from a single crystal, scheme. I would rather have it scattered at specific areas of the biome, like I mentioned on that post. But since the crystal is the way you guys have it now, I guess I'll just have to play along with it. However, if you guys could increase the vision distance of creatures to where if they saw you going near the crystals (let's say, from 15 to 30 meters away), that would feel more natural to me. In other words, it wouldn't feel as if they were protecting the crystal, but more like you're invading their territory.


    Regarding the MEA comparison:
    Your Godillo is not too far from that creature in the video. It just needs a bigger FOV, a bite animation, and moving/diverting algorithm. It doesn't need the hand strike because it has the head bash already. And maybe a fleeing algorithm when its health gets low.




    Concerning the modding:
    You said "If we can get modders to work for Planet Nomads and improve the game, we want to give them as much freedom as possible. To create their own items, blocks and recipes (materials needed for each block/items), etc."

    I never modded before, but if you can tell me the tools used and info regarding it, I will start to look into it. Soryn, a while back, said that he was involved in modding games before, he's a programmer.

    Have you thought about opening a Sticky Thread regarding this topic?



    I mentioned multiple times that if you guys needed help with content for Planet Nomads to ask your community. I think many of us probably have something that we can give (freely) to help on the development of the game.



    I've been mentioning about the issues and bugs of the game, yet I haven't mentioned what you guys got it right.

    First and foremost.
    1.Communication. Your level of communication to your community is excellent, and rapid. Also your willingness to modify the game to fit the player's taste. If this quality gets coupled with timed updates and/or frequent updates, this will certainly be your strongest quality in the game development world (as it is now).

    2. Game physics. This is the part I was and still am mostly impressed with the game. It just feels like a real world scenario (except when the noclip happens lol). The wheels moving with the terrain, the tree cutting, the hinges and rotors, the balancing system, the gravity, the solar system, the old tools, the walking, the ground deformation and the old building system : ). The real circular planet, ohh the real planet is just awesome. The freedom to build, AND THE AWESOME GAME BUGS XD that allowed me to achieve flight, space exploration, and all sorts of stuff. All these features contributed to my delight.

    3. Game aesthetics. The environment looks great (even at low settings). The new trees looks really good, (I don't like the glowing dots on some of them, but that's another story), the grass, the sky, the hills and land formations, some creatures XD, ground textures, clouds need work (add lightning and thunder too), the music fits really well, sounds needs a bit of work, the character vest is really nice (I just wish it didn't stick that far out where I can't see my feet). The sun rays, the sky mechanic (where the moon disappears in the morning and sun changes color as you escape the atmosphere), unfortunately no eclipses though, unless you're in space. Very good looking game.

    I didn't mention water because since I play in the lowest settings, all I see is triangles, I hear no splash sounds, there are no ripples. Can someone tell me if that's because of my settings. The floating leg movement needs to be slowed down a notch as well. The legs moving that fast makes the character look cartoony.

    4. Performance. At least during the 0.3 on my computer. I know it will improve with time.

    5. Community. No bashing, no name calling, or drama in the forums. People are very respectful here, specially during this internet troll age.


    6. Perhaps I should mention the development process being visible on trello. I personally don't understand how it really works, but that is a quality that I haven't seen with other devs which makes Craneballs stick out.


    I probably am forgetting a bunch of things, as I remember I'll add in. Big thank you Craneballs, and best wishes!
    Last edited by JUNKASAURUS; 18-04-2017 at 03:37 AM.

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