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Thread: Refund

  1. #1
    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad
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    Refund

    Hi is it possible to get a refund for the alpha my computer doesn't seem able to run the game at any decent framerate on my laptop and im not upgrading anytime soon. Thanks

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Wazbat's Avatar
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    Keep in mind this is the first alpha release with an early version of the sandy procedural engine. The game will get optimized in the future. What are your laptop specs?

    But if you want to refund anyway, you'll need to contact Daniel about that via daniel @ craneballs .com

  3. #3
    Kickstarter Wreck Nomad
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    I tried emailing Daniel @ craneballs .com and received a bounce back.

    I funded this game because it had multiplayer. This game no longer has multiplayer. I would like my money back. How do I proceed?

  4. #4
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    I got Planet Nomads at the start of Early Access, and knew at purchase that any time the game could completely change, stop work on my system or even be canceled and I accepted that risk.
    The thought that anyone would not realize the risk when purchasing during Earl Access or Alpha is preposterous, and have no right to be taken seriously.

  5. #5
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    If you bought thrrough Steam...then there are conditions for a refund through Steam provided you have not played the game too much.

    But..as Casual Viking says....if you buy a game in Alpha, it is made clear that the game can change, and that what you are buying is what the game is WHEN YOU BUY IT. It is subject ot change, and you may/may not ever get a finished game. If that is not something you are happy with, or if you absolutely MUST have a certain feature that isn;t implemented yet...do not buy early access games. They are not for everyone....but when the games reach full release...they will cost more.

    The developers might or might not give you a refund....If they do...they are nice guys...coz they don't have to

  6. #6
    Member Kwon's Avatar
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    I agree!
    Next time, if one bounce back (in this case: The devs had to admit they are not capable of implementing a multiplayer mode) will make you feel so unsatisfied that you want your money back, think twice before purchasing a game on early access.

    "I funded this game because it had multiplayer. This game no longer has multiplayer."
    No, you are wrong. The game NEVER had multiplayer. Multiplayer was planned, yes. But unfortunately sometimes plans change.

    Look up, what the game is about, what is there at the moment and how the developers interact with the community. If you like, what you see, buy that game. If not: DON`T.
    But I, being poor, have only my dreams;

  7. #7
    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad
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    +1 to the three posts upwards of my post, I agree whith them.

    Buying game at develoment phase is always a risky thing, but I must say that devs are doing really good job so far - and argument that you cant run PN on your laptop is subject to nonstop fluctuation between good optimised build whith high FPS and vice versa. There are way worse games on steam early access, or I should say it is really hard to find game which have active developers, not to to mention when devs are actively communicate with the community.
    I know a lot of people want to play PN whith their friends - but I rather have good single than crappy multi game and you still can show your friends what you built. Take it like you are really lost Nomad so noone have contact whith you so you are at your own.
    The more you know, the crazier you look.

    My screenshots from PN.

  8. #8
    Kickstarter Wreck Nomad
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    I don't know why you people felt the need to reply to this post when you had no information on how to proceed with a refund, which was my request. Feeling the need to lecture someone on the ins and outs of early access is all well and good, but if you look at the label underneath my name it says "Kickstarter Wreck Nomad", meaning I did not purchase the game in early access, I funded it on Kickstarter based on the concept they advertised "A multiplayer sandbox building survival game". If you're white knighting my post based on the rules of early access, you'd be wrong.

    On the kickstarter FAQ: "When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward. Their fundamental obligation to backers is to finish all the work that was promised. Once a creator has done so, they’ve fulfilled their obligation to their backers. "

    Multiplayer was a commitment made multiple times and was the *only* reason I funded the game at all, much less at such a high tier. Regardless of the rationale behind their decision to remove multiplayer, it fundamentally changed the project I funded, thus making it a project I would have had zero interest in funding. No where in their kickstarter did they stipulate that multiplayer was a "stretch goal" or "might not happen" or "may be pulled if we can't figure out how to make it work". In the post made about removing multiplayer, they stated the game would have to be recoded "from scratch", implying they weren't actually implementing MP from the beginning, even though they were committing to MP in the beginning.

    If this community wants to support developer behavior like and with other titles like No Man's Sky, you go ahead. Feel free to continue to support developers that over promise and under deliver. I for one expect a developer to do everything in their power to make their commitments work (Empyrion, Space Engineers, 7 Days to Die) and keep their games in Alpha as long as they need to to fulfill those commitments.

    So I make my request again: How do I proceed processing my refund for a kickstarter project that did not fulfill its obligations as dictated in their original campaign?

    In addition: I did not request a refund for No Man's Sky in spite of the blatant lies and misleading marketing. Why? Because I purchased the game in early access and not as a kickstarter campaign. I know how EA works, the risks taken, and the "purchasing as-is" mentality, so take your lectures elsewhere.

    =Khalysto=


  9. #9
    Kickstarter Builder Nomad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khalysto View Post
    I don't know why you people felt the need to reply to this post when you had no information on how to proceed with a refund, which was my request. Feeling the need to lecture someone on the ins and outs of early access is all well and good, but if you look at the label underneath my name it says "Kickstarter Wreck Nomad", meaning I did not purchase the game in early access, I funded it on Kickstarter based on the concept they advertised "A multiplayer sandbox building survival game". If you're white knighting my post based on the rules of early access, you'd be wrong.

    On the kickstarter FAQ: "When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward. Their fundamental obligation to backers is to finish all the work that was promised. Once a creator has done so, they’ve fulfilled their obligation to their backers. "

    Multiplayer was a commitment made multiple times and was the *only* reason I funded the game at all, much less at such a high tier. Regardless of the rationale behind their decision to remove multiplayer, it fundamentally changed the project I funded, thus making it a project I would have had zero interest in funding. No where in their kickstarter did they stipulate that multiplayer was a "stretch goal" or "might not happen" or "may be pulled if we can't figure out how to make it work". In the post made about removing multiplayer, they stated the game would have to be recoded "from scratch", implying they weren't actually implementing MP from the beginning, even though they were committing to MP in the beginning.

    If this community wants to support developer behavior like and with other titles like No Man's Sky, you go ahead. Feel free to continue to support developers that over promise and under deliver. I for one expect a developer to do everything in their power to make their commitments work (Empyrion, Space Engineers, 7 Days to Die) and keep their games in Alpha as long as they need to to fulfill those commitments.

    So I make my request again: How do I proceed processing my refund for a kickstarter project that did not fulfill its obligations as dictated in their original campaign?

    In addition: I did not request a refund for No Man's Sky in spite of the blatant lies and misleading marketing. Why? Because I purchased the game in early access and not as a kickstarter campaign. I know how EA works, the risks taken, and the "purchasing as-is" mentality, so take your lectures elsewhere.

    =Khalysto=

    While this all nice, you're forgetting one thing and KS will point it out to you as well...... and it all comes down to your quote..... When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward.

    You're forgetting one thing, multiplayer was stretch goal that was never achieved. Craneballs therefore can scrap that feature if they want or need to do so to succesfully complete this project. Craneball can complete this project without adding multiplayer to it and they will still fullfill the requirements. Craneballs is reponsible for completing this project and that doesn't require multiplayer at all. Where they went wrong is stated AFTER the campaign is over that they would still add multiplayer, that was wrong. At the time of the campaign you took a risk funding it, knowing multiplayer was a stretch goal that might never be realized.

    Funding a project involves risk, it may not in the end have all the features promised. It will have the core shown, but the extras surrounding it are subject to change. That's the nature of development and games that are in early access. They are subject to change. You took a risk, now learn to live with it and enjoy what you have, knowing that if they added multiplayer, all we would have is another mess of a game. I've got plenty of broken multiplayer games by now. Games with so much promise that got destroyed the minute the developer added multiplayer. The PN team for once are wise developers doing what needs to be do and are brave enough to scrap a few features to deliver a good game, instead of keeping them and deliver yet another unfinished and broken game. If you funded this because of multiplayer you took a massive risk, it was clearly presented on the KS page as stretch goal. You took a risk and lost, now be a man and take your loss and stop dwelling on it.

    Your comparison with No Man's Sky is very unfair to a team of people that keep us updated and try to be honest and tranparent with us. You should really be ashamed of yourself comparing this team to a bunch of liars that willingly deceived the public into buying a game that never was anything close to what they promised. Developers make mistakes and at times can't keep all their promises, try developing your own game and then you realize how difficult it is to reach every goal you've set. Developers are humans, like you and me they make mistakes and fail at times. At least Craneballs is open and honest enough about it, unlike others that pretend nothing happened at all.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khalysto View Post
    I don't know why you people felt the need to reply to this post when you had no information on how to proceed with a refund, which was my request. Feeling the need to lecture someone on the ins and outs of early access is all well and good, but if you look at the label underneath my name it says "Kickstarter Wreck Nomad", meaning I did not purchase the game in early access, I funded it on Kickstarter based on the concept they advertised "A multiplayer sandbox building survival game". If you're white knighting my post based on the rules of early access, you'd be wrong.

    On the kickstarter FAQ: "When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward. Their fundamental obligation to backers is to finish all the work that was promised. Once a creator has done so, they’ve fulfilled their obligation to their backers. "

    Multiplayer was a commitment made multiple times and was the *only* reason I funded the game at all, much less at such a high tier. Regardless of the rationale behind their decision to remove multiplayer, it fundamentally changed the project I funded, thus making it a project I would have had zero interest in funding. No where in their kickstarter did they stipulate that multiplayer was a "stretch goal" or "might not happen" or "may be pulled if we can't figure out how to make it work". In the post made about removing multiplayer, they stated the game would have to be recoded "from scratch", implying they weren't actually implementing MP from the beginning, even though they were committing to MP in the beginning.

    If this community wants to support developer behavior like and with other titles like No Man's Sky, you go ahead. Feel free to continue to support developers that over promise and under deliver. I for one expect a developer to do everything in their power to make their commitments work (Empyrion, Space Engineers, 7 Days to Die) and keep their games in Alpha as long as they need to to fulfill those commitments.

    So I make my request again: How do I proceed processing my refund for a kickstarter project that did not fulfill its obligations as dictated in their original campaign?

    In addition: I did not request a refund for No Man's Sky in spite of the blatant lies and misleading marketing. Why? Because I purchased the game in early access and not as a kickstarter campaign. I know how EA works, the risks taken, and the "purchasing as-is" mentality, so take your lectures elsewhere.

    =Khalysto=

    If you make a post in a public forum, rather than as a direct PM or e-mail to the developers....you get what answers you get, whether you like them or not. Are you the kind of person who tells people to shut up when they haven't given the answer you want in all conversations? You speak in public then the public has the right to join in however they choose.

    No Mans Sky got slated when their full release across multiple platforms fell flt on it's face. Not kickstarter, not alpha, not beta. They released an unfinished product at full price for whatever reasons....and they got a roasting. That was their own fault, or more likely...the publishers fault for pushing it out the door. Maybe the industry learned a lesson there, or maybe not...but whatever.

    Space Engineers is in Beta...not alpha...and after 4 years of EA still cannot make rotors and pistons work in multiplayer. The biggest issues in that game have come from Keen trying to make the game into what the community expected rather than make the game they intended. Endless feature creep has seen minimum specs rise.

    Perhaps if you do not wish to be lectured, you should come across less like a petulant schoolchild.

  11. #11
    Kickstarter Wreck Nomad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flakmagnet1701 View Post
    If you make a post in a public forum, rather than as a direct PM or e-mail to the developers....you get what answers you get, whether you like them or not. Are you the kind of person who tells people to shut up when they haven't given the answer you want in all conversations? You speak in public then the public has the right to join in however they choose.

    No Mans Sky got slated when their full release across multiple platforms fell flt on it's face. Not kickstarter, not alpha, not beta. They released an unfinished product at full price for whatever reasons....and they got a roasting. That was their own fault, or more likely...the publishers fault for pushing it out the door. Maybe the industry learned a lesson there, or maybe not...but whatever.

    Space Engineers is in Beta...not alpha...and after 4 years of EA still cannot make rotors and pistons work in multiplayer. The biggest issues in that game have come from Keen trying to make the game into what the community expected rather than make the game they intended. Endless feature creep has seen minimum specs rise.

    Perhaps if you do not wish to be lectured, you should come across less like a petulant schoolchild.
    Multiplayer features for Space Engineers were added during Alpha, and they kept the game in Alpha for as long as they needed to ensure they had a quality product moving into Beta. Out of the myriad of features in the game, there's a huge difference between a few blocks not working as expected and a game being impossible to play with other people.

    If you choose to take my comments as unreasonably irritable, that's on you. I paid money for something based on the expectations and commitments set by the developers and they did not meet those commitments. The *entire* reason I backed this game was for the multiplayer survival aspect as I have no interest in single-player games of this nature. At no point did I insult, demean, or lash out at the responses in this forum. Essentially requesting to "direct lectures elsewhere" and pointing out the difference between EA and Kickstarter backing is a statement of fact based on Kickstarter's TOS, not lashing out or being combative. I'm seeking assistance for a business transaction and saw no point in people taking the time to lecture me about something, especially considering the inaccuracy of a few of their base points.

    Lecture about whatever you wish, but its a waste if its not directly relevant or pertinent to the topic at hand. Splitting hairs about the full GA release of No Man's Sky vs. the EA release of Planet Nomads is completely irrelevant and really amounts to a straw-man argument considering they have stated this feature will *not* be in the final version of the game.

    Your desire to be combative and fling poo (regardless of the value of words used) here is, as you said, your prerogative as this is a public forum and I "get the answers I get". But the fact people are so quick to rally around developers who continue to break commitments with no consequence or recourse is a disturbing trend and continues to empower this sort of behavior.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://puu.sh/ycqUb/434b550e7c.png is a screenshot that shows they still have the multiplayer feature listed on their Kickstarter page.

    Excerpt from Kickstarter's TOS-- https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?ref=footer

    Don’t lie to people. Don’t post information you know is false, misleading, or inaccurate. Don’t do anything deceptive or fraudulent.

    ---

    The posting of multiplayer features falls under that TOS because they stated in their Q&A they'd have to "code everything from scratch" to allow for multiplayer. Meaning when the game was first posted to Kickstarter it wasn't being designed / built with multiplayer in mind, hence the information on multiplayer was "misleading, inaccurate and false".

    I funded based on inaccurate or misrepresented information and I want my money back, simple as that.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Vrmithrax's Avatar
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    A screenshot of a FAQ on Kickstarter that covers what they'd like to do with mutliplayer if it was implemented, very informative. Conveniently ignoring the fact that, if you simply go to the main Kickstarter page and scroll down to Stretch Goals, you see that multiplayer was ALWAYS a stretch goal, and one that total funding never came close to reaching.

    Since you are fond of quoting Kickstarter, let me educate you on what stretch goals are: https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq...ions#faq_50035

    The bottom line is, multiplayer was specifically listed as a stretch goal. Craneballs did not lie, mislead, or misrepresent anything (you should be VERY careful when calling someone a liar, by the way). You simply gambled on funding a game and either mistakenly or naively ASSUMED that the stretch goal would be reached. It was not. Therefore, in the eyes of Kickstarter (the method you used to support the potential for the game), Craneballs has no liability to provide a feature that was not funded. Period.

    You have every right to be sad, disappointed, or annoyed. I've had a few Kickstarter failures that let me down over the years, so I can sympathize there. But you do not have the right to be angry that enough funding was not reached to meet your arbitrary desired goal beyond the basic level that signaled funding success, or the right to try to call people out as liars when it is clear the mistake was YOU either not paying attention or not understanding what you were gambling your money on.

  13. #13
    Kickstarter Wreck Nomad
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    As stated in the stretch goals section:

    Stretch goals should be understood as the road map for Planet Nomads. They will all become game features eventually.


    How does that statement imply an assumption? Also, in multiple interviews they did not state "we will *try* to implement multiplayer" or there was any risk to that feature being dropped due to funding limitations.

  14. #14
    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khalysto View Post
    As stated in the stretch goals section:

    Stretch goals should be understood as the road map for Planet Nomads. They will all become game features eventually.


    How does that statement imply an assumption? Also, in multiple interviews they did not state "we will *try* to implement multiplayer" or there was any risk to that feature being dropped due to funding limitations.
    The devs have been open and honest and each stage of this process. They looked at multiplayer and decided it's likely to be a lot more effort than its worth, they communicated that and their reasons very clearly.

    If you wish to ask for a refund it is your right to do so but it is also their right to refuse, at the end of the day this game is early access, which is designed to give teams the funds to do things they wouldn't otherwise be able to do, however, the reason refunds are not usually given for games using this type of funding is you can't have groups of people randomly pulling their cash out of the project any time they have an issue, crashing development and destroying any hope of the game reaching completion. You in essence made a long term investment in the team, not the game, the team, to make a game that you like, just like any other investment, you can't just pull up roots at any sign of trouble. You also invested in a completely untested idea, games are not like most other industries, a lot of games are covering ground for the first time and will hit technical limitations for various reasons. Space Engineers is another example of a game of this type, they have has so many issues due to the engine they use.

    Planet Nomads is using Unity, which is likely better but the team is still covering ground that is barely being touched in the gaming industry. Which brings me to multiplayer,which don't get me wrong would be nice to have, but is a technical nightmare when it comes to a game like this and although there are ways to do it, it's always unreliable, especially since the game is physics based. For example, when does your client have control of positioning and when does the server (I am saying server here because p2p would be such a bad idea for this much data). Next lets look at the amount of things that need to be synced, just to name a few we have, time, weather, weapons fire, animals, all block changes, all voxel changes and every base and car/hovercraft/space coffin you create. The netcode to handle all that would be a nightmare to manage and update anytime you make a change to the game. Any game that requires that much networking for the most part, has a dedicated team who's only job is getting this stuff to work (Star Citizen is a good example). Until there are more OEM solutions to this issue small dev's like the amazing Planet Nomads guys will never be able to reliably do something like that, at least in a way that wont cause issues later.

    Moral of the story: don't invest in kickstarter or early access content if you don't understand the risks. Everything is subject to change.
    Last edited by StrangeCalibur; 02-11-2017 at 02:48 AM.

  15. #15
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    Kickstarter says:

    Stretch goals are not part of the official Kickstarter platform. Rather, a stretch goal is a funding target set by the project creator beyond the original Kickstarter goal. Stretch goals as a term and a practice emerged from the Kickstarter community as a way for creators to "stretch" beyond the initial, official goal of the Kickstarter project and raise more money (and often make cooler stuff!). Funds are collected whether stretch goals are met or not, as long as the project has met its Kickstarter funding goal.

    My golden rule with ANY game in EA, is to look at what you get for your money RIGHT NOW at the point I consider paying for it. If what I see is worth what they are charging, I will buy it. If the game expands I win. If it goes no further and development stops the instant I buy it ... I haven't lost.

    I bought Space Engineers the day it opened up the Survival option and moved from a creative sandbox. I bought this game a few weeks after release once I had seen some honest reviews of what it was able to do, and whether I thought it was going to offer me something I could enjoy.

    I bought ARK when it was still cheap, as it's great fun on a closed server with good friends. Toxic PvP griefer hell otherwise. Would not pay it's current price...but I have got good value from it and can live with it's limitations.

    I am still not buying into Star Citizen, because I am not at all sure what I get for the cost of a full AAA title. Most EA games offer reduced prices to reflect the reduced features and bugginess of EA.

    As far as companies go, if they continue to support the game, continue to push out regular updates and comms to the community, then I feel they are doing their part to make the game as good as they can. As long as that continues, I will continue to support them. I accept the game may never be what I hoped in every regard, but as long as it delivers enough to be fun...it's enough.

    If something fails to deliver, I would try to get a refund if the terms of sale allow ....and then walk away. If the terms do not allow a refund by right, and none is forthcoming from a developers generosity....then I also walk away. I find that preferable to lingering around a community supporting a game I no longer want anything to do with wondering why I get no support from people who are quite happy with the game......

  16. #16
    Kickstarter Wreck Nomad
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    Jesus guys... I'm not trying to convince you to see things from my perspective nor do I need someone to explain what Early Access is. Funding the game on Kickstarter is *not* early access. Releasing the game to Steam is what supplied you with Early Access and I'm not talking about that. Also, one of the earlier posters was kind enough to paste a direct link to the Stretch Goals portion of Kickstarter so repeating that verbiage isn't really necessary. Again, your prerogative as this is a "public forum", but why?

    If everyone wants to ignore the developer *specifically stating* that the stretch goals should be understood as the road map for Planet Nomads. They will all become game features eventually, fine. but my decision to fund was based on the commitment to multiplayer. That statement above was a commitment from the developers to deploy those features *eventually*. I don't care if it took them 10 years to deploy multiplayer to Planet Nomads. Once it was ready to test I'd happily endure the trials and tribulations that come with the multiplayer components of high physics games. I funded Space Engineers, Empyrion, and Astroneer because they committed to MP. I took the sentence above as a commitment to multiplayer. *Completely Removing* MP isn't the same as dropping some small or trivial feature. It completely changes the nature of the game itself.

    Folks can continue to attempt brow beat me into some form of compliance with what this community considers the "norm" of developer commitments and broken promises but you're wasting your time. Feel free to debate and rally around Craneballs if you wish. I for one do not accept a developer *firmly* positioning themselves one way, then completely changing the nature of the game with no recourse for people who only committed because of the original premise of the game. If that's what the gaming community at large wants to accept as "Kickstarter" or "Early Access" risks, feel free but I will not be one of them and will continue to voice dissent.

    I've funded nearly 30 titles on Early Access and have *never* requested my money back until now because they have all committed to their original premise and either stayed in perpetual early access or made it to GA with that essence in tact. MP is a *critical* and *experience breaking* commitment for me. If they didn't retool their stretch goals and commit to them as a roadmap (FACT, as stated in their Kickstarter page) this would be a different conversation, but they did. So how is that honest exactly? You're saying the dev can call stretch goals a "road map" and commit to this road map and quote any features they want, but when they don't fulfill they shouldn't be held accountable AT ALL? Why does that make sense to you people?

  17. #17
    Senior Member Vrmithrax's Avatar
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    Road map does not equal actual final path. Detours happen during development. Anyone who has funded 30 Early Access would be well aware of that fact. Anyone with any experience in Kickstarter funding would be PAINFULLY aware of that fact. The 2 are not the same, by the way. Not even close. Different standards, different levels of expectation, different rules to the process. And usually different outcomes.

    This isn't about brow beating you into compliance - I told you previously, I feel your pain. This is about the reality of the situation, and the difference between your perception of how things went down, and how others see it. By posting your request and complaint in a public forum, you basically asked for social commentary on the subject. Welcome to the internet.

    Holding the developers accountable for what they laid out as the desired road map when the funding didn't even reach HALF of the goal for the features you are talking about? Not so much. You do realize that the funding level basically determines how much money (which translates to staff, time, and resources) can be put towards development, right? You are basically asking the developers to pull non-existent funding out of thin air to achieve the massively complicated single stretch goal that you desire. The developers obviously wanted to be able to achieve that, but the reality of rather low funding for the game has changed things. You have taken the stance that they *firmly* positioned themselves, but in reality they are only firmly committed to meeting any goals that were funded. That's how Kickstarter works. They may WANT to do multiplayer, but without the resources to make things happen, you have to make adjustments and sacrifices to keep the whole project from grinding to a halt.

    The developers could get the whole game running, years of work to finish it up, finally get to official release, get some additional revenue that might help work on the "wish we could" stuff, and then come up with a patch to add multiplayer later. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen that happen. We're talking YEARS later. And if that happened some day, they'd technically meet the goal you are so adamant that they *firmly* committed to. That's the thing about the road map, it's what they would like to EVENTUALLY do, not what is absolutely necessary to consider the product finished and releasable.

  18. #18
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    TLDR: Funding level for multiplayer stretch goal not met, developers investigated to see if they had the resources to do it anyway, decided they did not and informed the community in a polite and respectful way.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vrmithrax View Post
    That's the thing about the road map, it's what they would like to EVENTUALLY do, not what is absolutely necessary to consider the product finished and releasable.
    As I stated in my last response, I don't care if it takes them 10 years to add multiplayer, as long as its added eventually. They have eliminated the "eventually" by stating the game "will *not* have multiplayer". I'm not sayings MP is required for me to be okay with its graduation to early access, nor am I saying MP is a requirement for the game to reach GA. As long as the feature would be added *eventually* (as they stated on the KS page), I can be a patient panda. That is not the case and that is what I take exception to.

    I'm not going to convince anyone here to agree with my perspective nor was that the purpose of my post. It was simply to garner the attention of someone that could assist me in resolving this issue and I was able to achieve that and establish a dialog. This thread has no further use for me and it would probably behoove a moderator to close/lock it.

    Thank you.

  20. #20
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    If you contacted them directly and they ignored you....why would a forum be a better place to make direct contact?

    Hence the assumption that by publicly complaining, you are trying to garner support for your view. That didn't happen.

    Probably because of the fundamental flaw in your reasoning you underpinned your argument with.

    1) Craneballs lied to you when they said they would absolutely definitely add multiplayer.

    2) They are clearly liars, as they have absolutely definitely said they won;t add multiplayer.

    er....

    To put that another way....they are telling the truth when they lied to you.

    Should have stuck with the less evocative approach that the game has failed to live up to YOUR expectations, and failed to live up to THEIR expectations, and whilst you respect their aims, it now seems unlikely that the primary reason you backed the game will not happen. On that basis, backing the game has turned out to be a mistake and can you please have a refund. You accept that you have no automatic right to a refund, but think it would be a good basis on which to part company. Give them your product activation key....and walk away.

  21. #21
    Kickstarter Builder Nomad
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    I understand that you're not trying to convince us, but if you're unable to do so, how will you convince KS to give you a refund? It's plain and simple, according to the rules set by KS, you're not eligible for a refund. Stretch goals are exactly what the word stretch entails ..... you stretch out to them, but may not reach them. In other words.... refund denied.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flakmagnet1701 View Post
    If you contacted them directly and they ignored you....why would a forum be a better place to make direct contact?

    Hence the assumption that by publicly complaining, you are trying to garner support for your view. That didn't happen.

    Probably because of the fundamental flaw in your reasoning you underpinned your argument with.

    1) Craneballs lied to you when they said they would absolutely definitely add multiplayer.

    2) They are clearly liars, as they have absolutely definitely said they won;t add multiplayer.

    er....

    To put that another way....they are telling the truth when they lied to you.

    Should have stuck with the less evocative approach that the game has failed to live up to YOUR expectations, and failed to live up to THEIR expectations, and whilst you respect their aims, it now seems unlikely that the primary reason you backed the game will not happen. On that basis, backing the game has turned out to be a mistake and can you please have a refund. You accept that you have no automatic right to a refund, but think it would be a good basis on which to part company. Give them your product activation key....and walk away.
    I started with an incorrectly formatted email address for Daniel @ craneballs which is why I did not get a reply. I then moved on to a forum post and pursued other means when I didn't receive a reply - your assumptions are incorrect. If you followed the thread initially that may have come to light. I also never stated I had an automatic right for a refund. My original post was:

    "I funded this game because it had multiplayer. This game no longer has multiplayer. I would like my money back. How do I proceed?" That request was not rude or petulant (as another poster stated). It was straight to the point, aired my issue and requested a process on how to move forward with resolving the issue.



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin (ShadowFlightBA) View Post
    I understand that you're not trying to convince us, but if you're unable to do so, how will you convince KS to give you a refund? It's plain and simple, according to the rules set by KS, you're not eligible for a refund. Stretch goals are exactly what the word stretch entails ..... you stretch out to them, but may not reach them. In other words.... refund denied.
    Because you are not Craneballs, you did not make this game and you have zero investment if another player has a grievance about how your game was positioned. The fact that you're not connecting with that point - and that anyone in this thread is anywhere remotely near a proxy for the actual development house is absurd. You're fans of the game and you funded it for a different reason than I, though I'm sure there's some overlap.

    Regardless of the technical definition of "Stretch Goal", Craneballs specifically represented their stretch goals as things that *would* happen, regardless of funding, thus changing the definition of stretch goals relative to their kickstarter campaign. Is it legally binding? No. Does it "obligate" them to refund my money? No. Am requesting a refund because the game's positioning was misleading? Yes. If they omitted the line "Stretch goals should be understood as the road map for Planet Nomads. They will all become game features eventually" I wouldn't have a problem, because I wouldn't have funded the game. Why? Because I funded the game at the zero hour (which they can confirm) to help ensure it met its base funding goal to move into production upon feeling reassured that, given enough time, a critical function I wanted (MP) would be available "eventually". I don't get how that's lost on you people. "Stretch goals should be understood", i.e. "Change how you think about stretch goals for this campaign because we're *specifically* asking you to.."

    The thing I think you folks are missing is that you've transformed this thread from a "request on how I proceed with getting a refund" to "I demand a refund and you're obligated to give it to me because of X/Y/Z reason". The rationale I provide provides context into how *I* found their positioning misleading giving them the opportunity to do right by someone who is understandably upset because of this SHARP change of development direction, especially considering they weren't even working on MP from the beginning. Why say MP would be a part of the game eventually if they didn't even start with MP in mind? Why didn't they say, when funded, that MP was completely off the table in their aforementioned roadmap? Why did the game have to hit EA, about half a year after the Kickstarter campaign finished before notifying people?

    Did they *have* to notify us about scrapping MP? Nope. Could they have put whatever they want in stretch goals and called it a roadmap and get people excited about things that'll never happen? Yup. Regardless whether or not they are breaking a Kickstarter rule (though I think they are, but that's my opinion), this *is* disingenuous; they were NOT straightforward in the Kickstarter page, they were NOT straightforward about the game not being designed with MP in mind from the ground up. That only happened after they went EA.

    So I say again; defend developers like this if you wish. But know that this type of behavior is on a spectrum. Yes Craneballs has been more up front than other development firms, but they are also far less up front than others. We're not talking about a minor component of the game here. MP completely changes the nature of the offering and is something that should not be handled lightly, in my opinion.

    For folks that like to argue, feel free as I'll continue to defend myself and my position until this thread is locked. But as it stands, there's nothing anyone has said here that wasn't said (in some way) in the first few post proceeding mine. If you wish to continue arguing with me, I request you at least review those threads and present a new perspective.
    Last edited by Khalysto; 06-11-2017 at 10:08 AM.

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    I been following this thread since the beginning, and let me just say one thing...ok, maybe a few things, in Khalysto's original post he had asked "How do i proceed?" And the only replies he got was how he doesn't or shouldn't get a refund, i know a lot of you think you are being helpful with your comments, and i commend you on that. But not actually answering his question on "How do i proceed?" is really confusing to me. And yes i am quite aware that this post that i am making falls into the same category, if i knew the proper contact information i would give it to him and let Craneballs decide what needs to be done. And actually i am wondering why no one from Craneballs has addressed this thread. I for one like single player, and am very happy with the game, but that's just me, i don't expect everyone to like the things i like, I simply think that this should ultimately be something that Craneballs should decide.

    Please understand that I mean no disrespect to any and all that have replied and also would like to state that i referred to Khalysto as "HE or HIM" when in reality i don't know the gender and if i misrepresented you i apologize for that. That being said i hope this issue is resolved quickly and to everyone's satisfaction.

  24. #24
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    The OP was reasonable. The community over reacted. Everything they said after that point confirmed the community's opinion of them.

    In my opinion, no one did great. Except chicago bob.

    Khaliysto did significantly worse.

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