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Thread: Reasons to explore:

  1. #1
    Kickstarter Builder Nomad Azirahael's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Reasons to explore:

    So, from another thread, it brought up a a good point.

    What reason is there to explore?
    We have all this hard work, and we need reasons to enjoy it, once we've gotten over the 'wow!' factor of seeing the game for the first time.


    In that Other Gametm you only need to explore enough to find a significant deposit of each element, and then you are done.
    At least until the deposit runs out.

    And the environment has a kind of 'stuck on after' feel.
    No depth.
    Like stickers instead of a painting.

    So there's not a lot of point


    But.
    Even in a good world, with rich and detailed biomes, there is only so much 'looking around' you can do before it simply fades into the backdrop.

    Consider the most amazing and beautiful place you would ever want to visit on earth. How impressive it is to go there, how wondrous.
    Now, consider the people who live there, to whom it is simply trees, and water and sea.


    I have no doubt that we'll be impressed when we get to look around. Moreso with each update.
    But after a while it will simply be a backdrop to our activities.

    So we need reasons to explore, besides 'ooo pretty!'
    So we can appreciate the pretty, as a nice backdrop to what we are doing.
    Because it will get boring eventually.
    Exactly how long depends on the person.
    but it will happen.


    my suggestions, for when the survival aspect of the game gets going, is to spread out the resources.
    Give us a reason to range far and wide.

    The simple resources like wood and dirt will be easy to come by, and thus should only do the most basic of things.
    Ditto food and food animals.


    Also, allow us to clear/mine/hunt out an area, so that we have to move on to get more food/leather/medicinal components.
    Because if we can just go back and forth across the same patch of [favourable biome] to get what we need, there's no point going further.
    also it lends a sense of impermanence to our actions.
    IT makes it a little like what we do doesn't matter.
    So let us make a permanent mark on our world, for good or ill.


    add story goals to go to specific far away places.

    mobile resources, like migrating herds that you have to find and follow.

    Explore to setup warning beacons/spot disasters coming ahead of time, so we can pack up our base and move, or dig in to survive it.

    Seasonal changes, giving us reasons to move to follow the herds/fruiting plants or whatever.

    Missions/quests to go a loooong way away. like, at least 50km.

    But i think the major thing is to make things permanent.
    No respawning resources.

  2. #2
    Kickstarter Wreck Nomad Wishblend's Avatar
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    I like the seasonal effects idea.

    You could have fun for example using the dynamic weather system, where at different times of the year, you get tornadoes (if possible) and flash flooding.
    Always looking for hidden locations and ways to build

    See my builds https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...Zv_ap4HysL3HIl

  3. #3
    Kickstarter Builder Nomad
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    What is the reason to explore? To see all the lovely and extraordinary landscapes, biomes, planets, caves, canyons and so on is more then enough reason.

    I'm going to be a bit blunt now, not because I want to offend you, no way, but because it needs to be said. You demand way too much, you expect way too much.

    I'm going to quote kickstarter part about exploration......

    After a while you may think you know all there is to know about a planet, but a few hundred kilometers away or a thousand meters higher, things could be radically different. Unlocking advanced technology increases your action radius and you'll be able to explore the more hazardous places where you wouldn't survive before. What are the strange monuments on the horizon? What lies in the lair of that monstrous creature you've been running away from all the time? As you upgrade your suit, build better tools and weapons you'll be able to answer those questions and stumble upon a couple more.
    That totally excites me and is more then enough already to have reasons to explore. Let them accomplish this first before we start to make all kinds of demands.

    Yes, normally I would use the word requests, but by now your requests don't sound like requests anymore, it's too demanding, way too much, way too overwhelming. You most likely will not agree with me, but I would ask you to tone it down a little. Let us first get the Alpha version. Then we get a look and feel of the game. Then we get a little glimpse of what is possible and what isn't possible. Then we start helping them and requesting things, but within reason.

    I also do not agree with you at all about things becoming a mere backdrop. I've been living in the same place for 16 years by now. A reasonable town surrounded by nature and some small towns. After 16 years I'm still not done exploring my surroundings. They are far from a background for me. I still discover new paths, new trees, even new plants and insects I have not seen before.

    TL : DR..... give this game a chance first before making so many requests and demands.
    Last edited by Benjamin (ShadowFlightBA); 24-07-2016 at 03:42 PM.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Wazbat's Avatar
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    A sand crawler may be a viable base system mid game. You just keep driving until you eventually find a suitable area with enough resources and protection.

  5. #5
    Kickstarter Builder Nomad Azirahael's Avatar
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    Or i can make suggestions now, before they get started on something, and then have to undo stuff.
    Which generally means it won't happen.

    So no, i'm not going to wait until something is half finished before i make a suggestion. That's too late.
    I'm assuming that the Devs are adults, and perfectly capable of deciding for themselves what is a feasible suggestion, and what is just pie in the sky.


    Do this now! or i'm dumping the game and never coming back!

    If you don't do this, you're an idiot!


    These are demands.
    Can you see the difference?
    So no, i'm not going to tone it down.


    and it's great that you don't get bored doing nothing other than looking at scenery.
    There are a number of quality walking simulators i imagine you will enjoy.

    But most folks have an adaptive response that makes it fade into the background.
    And the vast majority of people DO need more reason to explore than simply to look at things.
    Which is why adventure games and survival games are currently significantly more popular that walking simulators, no matter HOW pretty they happen to me.

    In the absence of clear direction, we are left to make our own.

    TLDR: request denied.

  6. #6
    Kickstarter Builder Nomad
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    In the absence of clear direction, we are left to make our own.
    Oh I totally agree with that and do you have any idea how awesome that sounds to me? Way too many games hold your hand all the way and leave little room for imagination. Planet Nomads is way more along the lines of you going your own way, That's the nature of sandbox games.


    Quote Originally Posted by Azirahael View Post
    Or i can make suggestions now, before they get started on something, and then have to undo stuff.
    Which generally means it won't happen.

    So no, i'm not going to wait until something is half finished before i make a suggestion. That's too late.
    I'm assuming that the Devs are adults, and perfectly capable of deciding for themselves what is a feasible suggestion, and what is just pie in the sky.


    Do this now! or i'm dumping the game and never coming back!

    If you don't do this, you're an idiot!


    These are demands.
    Can you see the difference?
    So no, i'm not going to tone it down.


    and it's great that you don't get bored doing nothing other than looking at scenery.
    There are a number of quality walking simulators i imagine you will enjoy.

    But most folks have an adaptive response that makes it fade into the background.
    And the vast majority of people DO need more reason to explore than simply to look at things.
    Which is why adventure games and survival games are currently significantly more popular that walking simulators, no matter HOW pretty they happen to me.

    In the absence of clear direction, we are left to make our own.

    TLDR: request denied.
    The vast majority of people DO NOT need more reason to explore than simply to look at things. Just look at No Man's Sky. It is the best selling pre-order game ever, breaking all the records by now. You know what the main selling point of that game is? Absence of clear direction and goals, unlimited exploration (without out clear reasons). No missions, no story, only lore and imagination. Yet, it beats all the story driven, clear direction games. Contrary to what you state, there is a huge growing market for games that lack goals and direction. I do hope that Planet Nomads will have lore and secrets, but will lack a clear story and clear directions, so that we can go our own way. Gamers are ready for this, they've had their hands hold long enough now and are getting tired of the same goals and stories over and over again.

    Well, we can debate this all day long, but will never agree, so let's agree to disagree on this matter. In the end the development team has to decide what to do and I surely hope they will keep going where they have been going.... dare to give is something different, instead of what we've seen all before. That is way I backed this game. It is different from others, I don't need an improved Emperyon or the next Space Engineers. I want an original experience, I want Planet Nomads to become as was promised on the kickstsrter page, a game where we set our own goals and find lore and secrets along the way. Let's hope they stay true to their vision and stay original.... without adhering to much to our demands

    Ps.... You can demand without making any demands.

  7. #7
    Member Maslostroj (Daniel)'s Avatar
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    Thank you both for your points.

    I remember Peter saying in one of the Czech interviews that the hard part of game design is not coming up with ideas, but resisting (some of) the ideas suddenly popping up everywhere - colleague, community, gamer friends... I'm sure we all know "I've played this game and it has amazing X, we should have X in this game!" And they usually seem right at glance, must have features, but it's often a road to not only feature-creep hell, but oftentimes a mishmash of half-assed things that don't work together.

    I understand how you feel, how you are concerned, how you'd like to know before-hand that everything's going to be alright with your upcoming dream game. All I can say is have a little faith. At the very beginning of Planet Nomads, (the idea spawning pool of late 2014) it was all messy, we knew we wanted building, but went from steam-punk to diesel-punk before settling on a the sci-fi theme (and briefly regretting it when Mad Max came out heheh). But when Petr talked about Planet Nomads, how talked with such clarity I could actually see the game. And when we finally democratically pushed him to officially be the game designer/ project manager of Planet Nomads, things started to roll and click.

    What I'm trying to say is that most of the game is still in his head. So a big part of the Planet Nomads team (me included) is in a very similar spot as you all. I realize this may probablyhow unbelievable this may sound, but that's how it is with game development, there should be one visionary leading the team (and I'd say its similar with movies and directors). Obviously in the making phase things change, and everyone affects how the final game plays one way or the other, but only when the phase comes to be.

    Benjamin quoting the Kickstarter is actually great. Kickstarter project page has crystallized from hours of talks among the team and discussions of what's possible, finalized with follow-up questions to Petr and Tomas (Lead Programmer). As such it is the clearest piece on things to come.

    Now we're in the execution phase - it's less of presenting "unified vision" and more of "features added". It's also the phase where everyone affects the final game, so suggestions here and now are in the right place and time.

    TL;DR: Azirahael you have good ideas, I would say within the scope of what's actually possible/coming. In fact they often feel kinda obvious to me, so it either feels like there's no faith in our abilities or you and us are on the same page. I'm going to opt for the latter ;)
    "Well, I thought. This is how the world works. All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
    -Raoul Duke

  8. #8
    Member Maslostroj (Daniel)'s Avatar
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    Totally forgot the most important message:

    "Permanence is a thing."
    "Well, I thought. This is how the world works. All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
    -Raoul Duke

  9. #9
    Kickstarter Builder Nomad
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    Thanks for shedding a bit light on everything. I do have faith that you guys will bring us an awesome experience soon and in the end as well. Sure, it will not totally be what I or someone else wants, but it will be good and I hope surprising. Otherwise I would not have backed this game, since I never back any games at all. I just did read the KS page, noticed the openness around here and the excitement of the team (even though you guys still need to be more natural on camera, but that will come as well, it's getting better with every video). Of course the whole vision shared on the KS page grabbed me also and the lovely images. That combined make me support this game. Seeing how things are going now and how much the game already has been improved from the KS page to what you show now, gives me the confidence that you will make a game we will all love to play.... no matter which direction it takes, though as you said, it will be in line with the KS vision.

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