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Thread: Planet Nomads suffers from the usual "Nothing else to do" issue

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    Planet Nomads suffers from the usual "Nothing else to do" issue

    As a great fan of Physic-Survival-Sandboxes I gave Planet Nomads a try, and I have to say I was really enjoying it so far. There is the occasional bug, like that not a single of my ships can fly if I build it on a static block, I have to put it on wheels first, but as a long-time early access player I am used to it. Aside from that there are many good and bad things about this game.

    I did like the way it started with the limited set of options, but no restrictions except for building this and that once. I very much hate artificial restrictions on building (like the 'skill tree' in Empyrion), but then such games often get confusing if you don't know your way around yet. Planet Nomads solves these issues in a very elegant way.

    With no idea how resources are spread or where to find them I got a little frustrated at first till I figured it out. I strongly suggest to add an ore scanner to the game that gives you the same information as a powered miner. This way you can actually figure out how the system works without having to build several miners that then don't work.

    I don't like the mobility options you have, because they are not actually options. Wheels cannot cross water (and there are plenty of oceans), wheels and hovers won't get you over steeper slopes and occasionally flip your vehicle over (I once got my vehicle flipped over when time acceleration from the stasis pod kicked in but physics wasn't done yet). Rotors don't have these problems and in addition are the fastest and easiest mode of travel. So if you want to get from A to B in the endgame, you built rotors.

    Aside from that the game suffers from the same issue as all the other similar games: once you got the resources, there is nothing else to do in this game. After like 2 days of playing the game and figuring out how it works, I already had near-infinite amounts of resources. If I'd restart the game with the knowledge I have now I am sure I could archive the same in a few hours. From this point on there is no longer a goal in this game, and if you don't change that, this game will suffer the same fate as all the other "me too" games out there: there will always be a game that does X better, so people will play that instead.

    The usual answer is "But you can build fun stuff in this game!" Yes I can, but honestly: other games (i.E. Space Engineers, Kerbal Space, Empyrion) are on the market for a longer time and therefore have a much more sophisticated building system. In other words: playing those games makes much more sense if you like building. Exploring is the other answer, but after a while of visiting random sites you start to see the same things over and over, just in a different location and with a few items placed differently. That is not exploring. Exploring is to find something entirely new that you have never seen anywhere else, even after playing the game for weeks and month.

    If you want this game to be a long-term success, you need to come up with something to entertain the players for a long term. Either you need a brilliant building system, a never-ending exploration system with constantly generated and different POIs, or a way to provide >fun< goals even after weeks. If possible a combination or all of them. If you don't do that, this game will vanish like all the other hundreds of "me too" games out there.

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    That's going to happen in early access alpha builds.
    I'm sure the closer we get to a full release version there will be a lot more to do other than just cover a planet with constructs.

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    It's not about adding a few more structures or modules, it is about adding a completely new game concept that keeps you entertained long term. That 's not something you just add later on. It's difficult to find something that satisfies that criteria and even more difficult to get it right. It would have to be part of the game right now so it can be tested, evaluated, improved, but I don't see anything like that anywhere. All I see right now is "Look we made yet another survival game" and that's just not going to do it long term.

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    this certainly isnt "just another survival game".. this is a sandbox survival/building game that has far more potential than most people realize. if you dont believe me check out my videos
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVt...dFdwvCydUYLGPg

    thers a whole world of things you can do, you just need the imagination and creativity

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCP_Labs_YT View Post
    this certainly isnt "just another survival game".. this is a sandbox survival/building game that has far more potential than most people realize. if you dont believe me check out my videos
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVt...dFdwvCydUYLGPg

    thers a whole world of things you can do, you just need the imagination and creativity
    That's a stretch for some folks - without a guided, step-by-step, hand-held tour of everything they're supposed to do, they sort of shut down. I play another sandbox game and it's one of the most common complaints, right behind "I use to be able to make 200/m Credits per hour, but now I can only make 2m Credits per hour!"

    Sandbox play is different - you either play or you sit and wait for the cats to bury you.

    But that said, as I mentioned before, this is still a very early alpha build. There are lots of things, not blocks (well, those too, but that's a different matter entirely) to still be added.
    I recall mention of traveling to other planets as well, plus talk about quests and trigger systems for them - all things not yet implemented. So it's going to take time. Yes, you can race to the very edges of the sandbox, and back, and build castles of all the sand we have, but until the rest of the toys are put in, there's not much but to wait, evaluate, bug hunt and report and, of course, provide constructive criticism.

    So, you've been the scarecrow too.. what else is it you are wanting to be able to do? If nobody tells anyone, how will the developers know what people are wanting?

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    It doesn't have to be a stretch. Just because I love to build doesn't mean that's what everyone needs to do. Sandbox means your game the way you want to play it. Some like to explore, some like to find wrecks, some like to challenge themselves and try to bring monuments home and some like me like to build. Not saying there shouldn't be a quest or story line but it shouldn't need it. I wouldn't consider myself as a scarecrow but more of an inspiration to the community

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoThe View Post
    As a great fan of Physic-Survival-Sandboxes I gave Planet Nomads a try, and I have to say I was really enjoying it so far. There is the occasional bug, like that not a single of my ships can fly if I build it on a static block, I have to put it on wheels first, but as a long-time early access player I am used to it. Aside from that there are many good and bad things about this game.

    I did like the way it started with the limited set of options, but no restrictions except for building this and that once. I very much hate artificial restrictions on building (like the 'skill tree' in Empyrion), but then such games often get confusing if you don't know your way around yet. Planet Nomads solves these issues in a very elegant way.

    With no idea how resources are spread or where to find them I got a little frustrated at first till I figured it out. I strongly suggest to add an ore scanner to the game that gives you the same information as a powered miner. This way you can actually figure out how the system works without having to build several miners that then don't work.

    I don't like the mobility options you have, because they are not actually options. Wheels cannot cross water (and there are plenty of oceans), wheels and hovers won't get you over steeper slopes and occasionally flip your vehicle over (I once got my vehicle flipped over when time acceleration from the stasis pod kicked in but physics wasn't done yet). Rotors don't have these problems and in addition are the fastest and easiest mode of travel. So if you want to get from A to B in the endgame, you built rotors.

    Aside from that the game suffers from the same issue as all the other similar games: once you got the resources, there is nothing else to do in this game. After like 2 days of playing the game and figuring out how it works, I already had near-infinite amounts of resources. If I'd restart the game with the knowledge I have now I am sure I could archive the same in a few hours. From this point on there is no longer a goal in this game, and if you don't change that, this game will suffer the same fate as all the other "me too" games out there: there will always be a game that does X better, so people will play that instead.

    The usual answer is "But you can build fun stuff in this game!" Yes I can, but honestly: other games (i.E. Space Engineers, Kerbal Space, Empyrion) are on the market for a longer time and therefore have a much more sophisticated building system. In other words: playing those games makes much more sense if you like building. Exploring is the other answer, but after a while of visiting random sites you start to see the same things over and over, just in a different location and with a few items placed differently. That is not exploring. Exploring is to find something entirely new that you have never seen anywhere else, even after playing the game for weeks and month.

    If you want this game to be a long-term success, you need to come up with something to entertain the players for a long term. Either you need a brilliant building system, a never-ending exploration system with constantly generated and different POIs, or a way to provide >fun< goals even after weeks. If possible a combination or all of them. If you don't do that, this game will vanish like all the other hundreds of "me too" games out there.
    TwoThe, first when I saw the title of the thread I thought you and I have the same way of thinking. I am not sure though. I see differences too.
    I will try to highlight only very shortly some of them:
    • the game is balanced to survive with the low quantity of resources you find. Finding the rich veins is a trick which is a nice way to help those who play the game again and again, to skip the resource shortage, if they want too. I played survival and I setup some rules, one of them was to avoid digging, to uncover the veins. And survival was much more interesting this way. But I would dislike to become a constraint of the game.
    • for survival, I would prefer an activity instead of a "goal". A goal is like the end of a story. To maintain an equilibrium, to try to survive more and more, or with different kind of settings, some of them chosen randomly maybe, could offer a higher replay value than having as goal "build a ship and return to Earth"
    • to entertain players for a long term is needed only if you have a mmo. This game needs only to offer a high quality entertainment, as long as it is played. Players who bought the game, have to be satisfied enough to leave a positive review, which would convince others to buy the game.


    The game has a survival label. People who want survival may buy the game and end up saying there is nothing to do. This is the weakest part of the game I would say. Somebody suggested that maybe the game should drop the survival label and go all the way toward the technical part. I do not agree with that point of view. I think developers should improve the experience by adding new ways of playing it, without destroying the existing play style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCP_Labs_YT View Post
    It doesn't have to be a stretch. Just because I love to build doesn't mean that's what everyone needs to do. Sandbox means your game the way you want to play it. Some like to explore, some like to find wrecks, some like to challenge themselves and try to bring monuments home and some like me like to build. Not saying there shouldn't be a quest or story line but it shouldn't need it. I wouldn't consider myself as a scarecrow but more of an inspiration to the community
    Scarecrow is a Star Trek reference - Q Continuum... you're quite the inspiration. I've seen a number of your build videos and am left scratching my head many a time. Between conceptualizing and actually making many of these things work.... just exceptional. And no, PN doesn't "need" any sort of questing - but certainly some minor things with Do This -> Generate Result type structure would be a very nice touch.

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    Oh lol. Been a while since I watched ST:TNG

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCP_Labs_YT View Post
    this certainly isnt "just another survival game".. this is a sandbox survival/building game that has far more potential than most people realize. if you dont believe me check out my videos

    thers a whole world of things you can do, you just need the imagination and creativity
    It's great that you have fun, but what you show in your videos you can do in about 80% of all other physics sandbox survival games out there, and if you take those which are already out of early access you can also do it a lot better as those games have a lot less bugs and a lot more features. Like this for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IrNauSzX-s

    The only thing all those games don't have is an endgame that is not "building stuff".

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    Ya I've seen SE but to me PN has a more realistic look. That's why I play this and not Besiege or KSP. Yes I can do lots more in the others but this game has a certain level of immersion that I really enjoy. You can try to convince me otherwise but I'm sticking with PN and it's amazing potential

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoThe View Post
    I don't like the mobility options you have, because they are not actually options. Wheels cannot cross water (and there are plenty of oceans), wheels and hovers won't get you over steeper slopes and occasionally flip your vehicle over (I once got my vehicle flipped over when time acceleration from the stasis pod kicked in but physics wasn't done yet). Rotors don't have these problems and in addition are the fastest and easiest mode of travel. So if you want to get from A to B in the endgame, you built rotors.
    Wheels are an Early-game option, when you haven't the resources for sufficient Air or Hover blades. Your first trip to the Equatorial Desert or Subarctic Tundra biomes is typically done with a wheeled vehicle.

    Hover blades are the mid-game option, as you no longer have to go around water, but can instead motor straight over it.

    Air Blades are the end-game option, due to speed and total bypass of all difficult terrain.

    Aside from that the game suffers from the same issue as all the other similar games: once you got the resources, there is nothing else to do in this game.
    All games end, eventually.

    There is no such thing as a game with endless content within a single playthrough. It's physically impossible to make one.

    After like 2 days of playing the game and figuring out how it works, I already had near-infinite amounts of resources. If I'd restart the game with the knowledge I have now I am sure I could archive the same in a few hours.
    Have you tried a +30 Water Level game? It's a much different challenge; it's much harder to find resources, because so very much of the planet is covered in water.

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    If you start with a pod you have the resources to build a hover craft or a fan craft. I can build a 2 fan flyer with 8 elec 2 chips. The hover craft with 3 pods can be built with less mk2 materials from the ship scrap. I prefer the flyers. So early game access to the ores is possible. Or walk to the next biome and get your ores. As to water world. You can mine underwater just need O2 if your taking a lot of time.

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    Your first trip to the Equatorial Desert or Subarctic Tundra biomes is typically done with a wheeled vehicle.


    That's what I did, and I returned with a flyer. Not because I wanted to, but because wheels/hovers won't get you over any terrain that is not flat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Pax_ View Post
    There is no such thing as a game with endless content within a single playthrough. It's physically impossible to make one.
    Have you heard of No Man's Sky? With 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 planets to visit, this is virtually endless content, as it would exceed the lifespan of many generations. Endless Content certainly is possible, using procedural generation, and this is something NMS does do quite well. Yes, their selection of various parts for assembling things like plant-life, rock formations and animal life is a bit... limited, but the foundation it is built upon is quite impressive, enough so that the procedural generation methods Hello Games uses has spawned into a side-business for them, providing consultation services for other companies delving into procedural generation.

    With the right selection of "parts" to assemble anything from rocks on the ground to sprawling cities and the lifeforms that inhabit them, yes, you could achieve such a volume of content on a single play-through, that it would easily give the impression of infinite diversity. NMS has taken a lot of internet heat since its release, and I'm not going anywhere near that discussion. But love it or hate it, you cannot deny the technology behind it, and it lays a very interesting foundation for future game titles.

    Think about all the standard-issue RPG's out there. Now imagine if those same RPG's started to make use of the sort of procedural tech NMS uses - ever game would have a new, randomly generated terrain, randomly generated NPC's, creatures, vegetation, landscape - even quests could be generated in such a manner (Elite: Dangerous does this for their mission system*). Continue to expand on this, and you've got something with virtually unlimited replay potential, as each new game is essentially an entirely new game.

    Mix this with the New Game+ option that so many games these days feature, and you've really got something exceptional.

    * Elite: Dangerous mission system yes, absolutely, gets very repetitive but not so much because of how missions are generated, but because of the limited pool of options available, and because I suspect of a tremendous amount of Attention Deficit Disorder among programmers and project leads there.

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    As long as the number of algorithms which generate some content is limited, the human brain will notice the pattern sooner or later.
    And while shapes can be combined and generated, music and phenomena cannot.
    When we play games we do not only explore fractals, we also play against algorithms.
    You could say chess is endless because a normal player cannot learn all positions but the rules are the same and he gets to a level where he is not getting better anymore. Then the game becomes a grind, where much effort must be invested to get a little bit of progress.

    But Planet Nomads offers many things to do, to those who enjoy what the game offers.
    If they want only survival through fight then they indeed reach fast the end of the game.
    The irony is that the game encourage the player to build vehicles, which makes survival way to easy. And the normal player will expect that the building activity which he learns in the first days to integrate itself somehow with the survival part. And it doesn't.

    The real survival is to avoid using stasis chamber and to avoid building vehicles. Try to reach the poles with MK1 equipment on foot, without sleeping. (When your energy is at 0% you can only walk.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by _Pax_ View Post
    There is no such thing as a game with endless content within a single playthrough. It's physically impossible to make one.
    Have you heard of No Man's Sky?
    Yes, and that game also does not have endless content within a single playthrough.

    I know this firsthand; I pre-ordered it, I played it, and all those planets and stars are basically _the same_. More places to go != more content, in and of itself. (And then, I promptly got myself a refund for it.)

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    When I think of all the games that I got bored with before I had 80 hours in them, I have to roll my eyes when someone with 500+ hours says it’s boring and needs more content.

    Personally after playing NMS for about 200 hours, I realize never ending content can get boring.



    We know planetary travel is in the works, and current planet ranges limited to make it suitable for new players and once we can travel to other planets whey will include more dangerous planets.



    We also know Kickstarters will be adding more POIs types to the starting planets.
    And to build on that I think it would be great if they could have it so standard-players could build/share POIs for secondary planets.
    (AI: you travel from the 10th monument to a planet with BCP labs and Inigo POIs to discover)



    I after PN is released I would like to see two expansion packs;
    1. Geode Asteroids (same size range and surface, but with a zero-gravity crystal core to explore)
    2.
    Zero-Gravity Space Station with one monument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Viking View Post

    (AI: you travel from the 10th monument to a planet with BCP labs and Inigo POIs to discover)
    Watch out for those Inigo POI's if you have 6 fingers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Viking View Post
    ...I have to roll my eyes when someone with 500+ hours says it’s boring and needs more content. ...
    What if he is the developer of the game?
    I see NMS boring too but I also have to admit that I played it 0 hours

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo View Post
    Watch out for those Inigo POI's if you have 6 fingers.
    It is 1stGenGamer POIs that we need to watch out for. ;)


    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1213564990

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    Quote Originally Posted by Menzagitat View Post
    What if he is the developer of the game?
    I see NMS boring too but I also have to admit that I played it 0 hours
    I probably have close to 1000 hours in NMS, and while it can get repetitive at times, I still find it fascinating, though I mainly support the game not so much for the game content, but for the technology behind it. I'd imagine a clever team of developers using this technology could cobble together a game of unlimited variety and replay potential like nothing we've seen before in anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo View Post
    I probably have close to 1000 hours in NMS, and while it can get repetitive at times, I still find it fascinating, though I mainly support the game not so much for the game content, but for the technology behind it. I'd imagine a clever team of developers using this technology could cobble together a game of unlimited variety and replay potential like nothing we've seen before in anything else.
    Truth is people say the game is changing and starts to deliver better and better content.
    I might end up buying it.
    The reason why I didn't tried it yet is because I saw some screenshots with animals generated by randomly putting together parts and because I played before space games where I was traveling from planet to planet and talking with aliens or buying and selling stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Viking View Post
    When I think of all the games that I got bored with before I had 80 hours in them, I have to roll my eyes when someone with 500+ hours says it’s boring and needs more content.

    Personally after playing NMS for about 200 hours, I realize never ending content can get boring.



    We know planetary travel is in the works, and current planet ranges limited to make it suitable for new players and once we can travel to other planets whey will include more dangerous planets.



    We also know Kickstarters will be adding more POIs types to the starting planets.
    And to build on that I think it would be great if they could have it so standard-players could build/share POIs for secondary planets.
    (AI: you travel from the 10th monument to a planet with BCP labs and Inigo POIs to discover)



    I after PN is released I would like to see two expansion packs;
    1. Geode Asteroids (same size range and surface, but with a zero-gravity crystal core to explore)
    2.
    Zero-Gravity Space Station with one monument.
    We all know the last thing CB wants is me to add anything to the game. They want players to explore and have fun. Not refund the game because something I made breaks the game or kills them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCP_Labs_YT View Post
    We all know the last thing CB wants is me to add anything to the game. They want players to explore and have fun. Not refund the game because something I made breaks the game or kills them.
    Developers have to improve other things first. Many players stop playing the game after 50 hours.
    Some play it only 10 some reach 100 but the average seems to be 50.

    You found a niche by pushing the game to it's limits and breaking the game.
    And you have fallen into a trap.
    Old-gamer named you once "mad scientist" and you embraced that idea and you see yourself as one. You advertise yourself as a "mad scientist" now on the forums. This means you come and tell players "Most likely I am better than you".
    Junkasaurus was the first one and he showed some of his creations.
    As amazing as you can be, once you reach the limits of the game, you wish those limits should not be there, and you blame the developers.
    In real life you do not blame the creator...

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