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Thread: Odd behaviour of hover pads ...... can anyone explain this?

  1. #1
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    Odd behaviour of hover pads ...... can anyone explain this?

    I was building myself an amphibious vehicle to get around on my Waterworld map, and I hit something very odd.

    I wanted to have it able to float unpowered, so I could basically park it in the ocean and not have to worry about using hover pads to keep it off the bottom. To this end, I built it and then launched it unpowered other than by wheels to check that it was OK floating. I hadn't put much on board, so I expected no issues.

    Sure enough, it floats just fine, so I move to phase 2 and start adding the hover pads to drive it along. I end up with a multi wheel wagon built around 2 flotation base blocks with a gap in the middle. 3 Deuterium reactors provide ample power. With 3 pads either side in teh centre gap and a pair at the stern for steerage, it floats just fine.

    Until....I climb in the cockpit.

    Hit 'forward' and she drives on in the water...but starts to sink. A lot. Really tail first. So I remove the rear hover pads...and she still sinks, just on an even keel.

    Exit the cockpit, and up she goes.

    Now...I have the pads set to grounded, so when I exit the cockpit the pads deactivate....but it REALLY looks like I have hover pads pushing me DOWN not UP. I didn't think tha twas possible ????

  2. #2
    Senior Member Vrmithrax's Avatar
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    I am starting to wonder if vehicle physics get a little "suspended" until we get into the cockpit, and then it starts doing full calculations on everything. I had noticed some similar behaviors on older floating systems I made in the past, and thought maybe I was just crazy or had done something ass backwards. And I actually had an airblade push my carrier base down once, but that was partially my fault, partially the super flaky rotation axis system flipping around randomly while I was building (and I failed to notice the fan was upside down).

    I'm with you, though. I didn't think downward force from the hoverpads was possible.

    I'm wondering - based on the process you listed above, had you double-checked that the system floats with the hoverpads installed? Those can add a surprising amount of weight. And the rear sinking scenario sounds a bit like a problem I had, where some of my hoverpads in one corner weren't connected properly and so the lift from the other side of the ship was shoving that corner down into the water...

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    Hoverpad weight is accoutned for.....and not a problem. The craft floats perfectly again once you exit the cockpit. She raises herself right back up. Back in the cockpit...and it's submarine time again.

    By removing the end hovers, I could alter the degree of 'sink'.

    It's getting late here, so experimentation is done for the night, but I plan some tests in creative tomorrow.

    1) Place my floats and then pile stuff on to see how silly I can get before it sinks.
    2) Add extra flotation and build the same chassis on 3 pontoons.
    3)Play with hover pad placement

    This is the basic chassis ..... shot was taken before the hoverpads were added, but she didn;t settle lower in the water when I did add them:



    Here's what's under the water ....



    My 3 pontoon float craft holds 2 reactors, a stasis chamber, a medium 3d printer and 8 small cargo containers. She floats just fine and motors on 10 hoverpads with no ill effects. This one was fine too....unpowered.

    I placed 4 hjover pads inside the centre space....and added 2 on the rear as well. I tucked them up so they were just under weater, but would not catch on the ground when driving on land. Might try cutting back on the 24 wheel drivetrain too....just for good measure.

    Just wish I knew why it floated fine when you were NOT in the cockpit, and sinks when you are!

  4. #4
    Member BCP_Labs_YT's Avatar
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    have you increased the bouyancy of the floating foundations? you can access it from the C menu. just be careful, it will jump

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    Senior Member Vrmithrax's Avatar
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    That is very weird, indeed. You might make a copy of that save and get it to the devs, sounds like a bug to me.

    Or they are pausing some of the vehicle physics calculations when we're not in cockpit, as I was beginning to suspect... Either way, a fairly unexpected and irritating issue for players.

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    Member BCP_Labs_YT's Avatar
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    another thought here, ive done many things with hover pads including a speed boat and a sub and one thing i noticed was if you have hover pads and are above the water youre fine but if the pads dip down below the water surface you cant get back up. i wonder if being outside the cockpit the floating foundations take priority i the physics calculations but as soon as you enter the cockpit the game says its time to "activate" the hover pads and overrides the floating. when you get in are the hover pads above the water or touching it?

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    hmm...food for thought here

    I will try moving the hover pads up so they are clear of the water and see if that helps. My other 'boat' creations have submerged hover pads....and seem to work OK.

    I will also look at the bouyancy and see if I can ramp it up.

    The only other thing I can think of right now is that the craft has wheels. By adding those, I wonder if the physics engine gets confused. It may 'class' things as boats, cars or planes and as it's been built on a jack....it assumes it's a car. Out of cockpit, the flotation of the float block is recognised....but on entering the cockpit, vehicle physics take over. Exiting the 'pit deactivates them...like the brakes going on when you exit a wheeled wagon.

    At work right now, so can't test.... but will try out these ideas when I get in.

    I will make another save in creative to test .... and I can send this to the devs if they want to have a look. I am trying to make an all terrain vehicle that isn't just a plane...

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    Right...here's some interesting extra info.

    Setting the hover pads to 'hover' rather than grounded causes the boat to sink. The pads now act as tehy did when the cockpit was manned.....but all the time. So when the pads are below water, Powering up makes you sink ... but I can move the craft easily.

    Moving the pads higher so they are just on the water results in a craft that won;t move. Stuck to the spot floating.

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    Is it even remotely possible the pads are mounted upside down and causing this?
    Might be worth removing and rebuilding them, at least as a test.

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    Member BCP_Labs_YT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo View Post
    Is it even remotely possible the pads are mounted upside down and causing this?
    Might be worth removing and rebuilding them, at least as a test.
    that could be, they dont have arrows like the air blades but if you look inside the ring there is a block. the sloped side faces down

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    Now I am super stupidly massively confused as hell!!!!

    Went into Creative and created a waterworld ( water +30 ) as before, and recreated my craft. I corrected a minor error, but basically it is the same craft. I wanted to test if it made a difference building it as a boat ( as my water craft had behaved perfectly ) as against building it as a car with floats.



    As before, it has 2 flotation bases and 6 hover pads mounted centrally. Underneath there are 24 wheels and it packs 3 deuterium reactors to power it. I checked at each construction stage that it floated and wasn't messed by getting in the cockpit. All seemed well...and when I got to the final build, I jumped in the pit and it did NOT sink.

    Great I thought. Building it as a boat worked.

    But...just to check, I built another version only this time, as a car on land built on a jack as I had done with the other one in survival. Here she is just before I removed hte jack...so you can see it is exactly the same...aside from being green



    Drove the thing around on land to test it...and then headed for the water. I was not expecting a good outcome. This is what happened....



    Now....how the hell do I explain this? It works perfectly. You can see the craft has lifted a fraction in the water on the hoverpads, and rides higher in the water....but when I exit the cockpit it sits exactly as the white vessel does.

    So...in my survival world, this design was sinking when the cockpit was manned, and only floating when not. That makes it ......A BUG!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flakmagnet1701 View Post
    hmm...food for thought here

    I will try moving the hover pads up so they are clear of the water and see if that helps. My other 'boat' creations have submerged hover pads....and seem to work OK.
    In one game I had a pure hovercraft, normally drove it above the waves entirely. Once or twice, exited it - and it was set to Grounded, so it promptly sank like a stone. If I swam down and entered the cockpit, it'd pop to the surface like a lovesick cork, so I thought nothing of it .... until I started driving forward BEFORE getting to the surface.

    The craft would develop a forward tilt - that increased more and more if I kept driving - and also sink further down again. Or instead of saying "forward", i should say "in teh direction I was trying to drive".

    This only ever happened when the hoverpads were immersed. So, yes, try lifting them out of the water and see if it still happens.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Pax_ View Post
    In one game I had a pure hovercraft, normally drove it above the waves entirely. Once or twice, exited it - and it was set to Grounded, so it promptly sank like a stone. If I swam down and entered the cockpit, it'd pop to the surface like a lovesick cork, so I thought nothing of it .... until I started driving forward BEFORE getting to the surface.

    The craft would develop a forward tilt - that increased more and more if I kept driving - and also sink further down again. Or instead of saying "forward", i should say "in teh direction I was trying to drive".

    This only ever happened when the hoverpads were immersed. So, yes, try lifting them out of the water and see if it still happens.
    speaking of using them under water.....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-zT18RqquY
    they actually work better under water LOL

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    I tried with the pads in both positions. In water, or on the surface. In water, I got good drive...but sank. Above water, it did not even move. .

    Things have moved on since then though, as I did a batch of tests in a fresh creative world and got the results I should have had all along ...... and no sinking. This tells me the game world I have is experiencing a bug. I will try to rebuild my craft from scratch in the survival world and see if I can get it to work.

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    Vertical large air-blades will give you good speed.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1364787022

    But vertical hover pads did nothing.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1364899266


    Tilted hover pads set to hover will give you cruise control, controlled by a switchboard.
    This set-up was easy to do, just 4 blocks up, hinge, 5 blocks on hinge, attach hover pads, and repeat.
    building this set-up under a beck will also work.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1364903965

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    Right..I have it

    The Eureka moment.

    The hoverpads WERE on upside down. Not all of them...but some of them. Enough to tip the balance. You expect the part orientation to be the same each time you use a part, unless you change iot...but the hoverpads were not obeying that rule. The first one I placed was fine...the next was upside down. I think somehow things have got confused on the craft as to which way was up.....When I went back and corected each pad one by one...all was good!

    Now I am going to rebuild it and see if I get the same issue

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo View Post
    Is it even remotely possible the pads are mounted upside down and causing this?
    Might be worth removing and rebuilding them, at least as a test.
    I guess we can mark the post of Indigo as the winner one

  18. #18
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    Indeed ...if there was a prize,.... I would be awarding it to Indigo.

    I havce also updated my bug report to ask how...if you put a row of 3 hover pads down in a line, the first pad is the right way up but the next 2 are flipped the other way up. But also....if I removed and replaced the pad...it stayed orientatred the same way.....up or down facing.

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    I guess we can mark the post of Indigo as the winner one

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