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Thread: [high Priority]Game killed after loading base

  1. #1
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    [high Priority]Game killed after loading base

    Game Version: 0.8.8.1
    OS: Windows 10
    Simple Description: Base killed my game
    Detailed Description: After flying back in my airblade towards my base, my car was merged with my base and after reloading, my airblade as well
    The car sank a bit through the base foundation, and then the car (or the base) started spraying the parts all over the place.
    Eventually I landed the Airblade as well and also this vehicle started merging with the base.
    Reproducibility: Every time
    How to Reproduce: load my game
    Any additional information: Info
    Log file: included in save file
    DXdiag:
    DXDiag.jpg

    This is what it approximately looks like

    Crash.jpg

    The game cannot be loaded again, so I have to start over
    Here's the save game

    www.transfernow.net/64d8l4666ujx
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  2. #2
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    I wonder if the save game editor made by Caleon can help moving the vehicle above the platform. That would stop the shakes.

  3. #3
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menzagitat View Post
    I wonder if the save game editor made by Caleon can help moving the vehicle above the platform. That would stop the shakes.
    Maybe, I didn't try it yet.
    However I heard many people complain about their vehicles disappearing or even being swallowed by the base after scouting the planet, so I think it should be looked into more properly.
    When I arrived at my base with my airblade, the frame-rate suddenly dropped to a slide show and the magnificent screenshot was one I managed to take before I ended the game with the task manager.
    So, the game became unplayable and for now I decided to start all over again.
    Guess I'll not be parking vehicles on my base anymore for some time, until I get the signal that it should be solved.
    I'll try it out again then
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  4. #4
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    It's one of our long-running bugs. I'll try to explain what causes it.

    When you move away from your buildings, the terrain switches to lower LODs (more detailed chunks are replaced witch less chunks that also have lower vertex count). Those simplified terrain chunks have different shape and also different colliders. Both for performance reasons.

    There are 2 types of constructions - grounded and non-grounded, aka. buildings and vehicles. Buildings are frozen on their position so they does not move if terrain changes. Vehicles is another story - when terrain changes, it tries to respond to those changes, eventually moving up through the ceiling etc.

    Here is some simple case - four images of the same place. You can see, how position of craft changes while player is leaving, until objects are completely unloaded by engine:




    So now how to fix it? We could keep all colliders in the most detailed level whole the time, but that will be very performance demanding. Or we could unload all the creations much sooner, actually nearer, like 100 meters away from player.

    But we rather want to keep them visible in the scene and freeze them like the buildings are. So they wouldn't move even if a mountain grows inside. Or if supporting object disappears first. When you return back, we will unfreeze them and try to reconstruct original movement.

    If you'll have some distant moving machines, you'll notice they freeze and unfreeze, but active blocks like generators or mining machines will continue working normally, as they are not dependent on physics or graphical interpretation.

  5. #5
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    Great presentation! Maybe it could be extended into a more detailed technical lesson and posted on the blog... unless the effort to write the article it is bigger than to freeze the vehicles

  6. #6
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Thank you for your explanation Martin.
    I hope my save game and log file will help you debugging this problem soon.
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  7. #7
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Hi Martin.

    I've been thinking about this issue some more and maybe I can give a good idea, however I don;t know if what I'm going to write now will make any sense or not.
    About this issue I once read somewhere that it also has to do with rounding down numbers as soon as the player leaves his base, which I understand as follows:

    A player places a floor plate somewhere on the x,y,z coordinates of 1.12345 - 3.54321 - 0.98765 because in PN it is possible to place the blocks almost anywhere.
    Once the player goes about 1K away from his base, the game will start rounding down (or up) these x,y,z coordinates to a specific number behind the dot.
    So the block might eventually end up somewhere on location 1.12 - 3.54 - 0.99.

    In case of the base, this won't matter much since the base is one object once it is placed and all the other blocks will move along with these coordinates.
    But in case of the car, this might be a killer, because the car that moves up or down, might get entangled in these coordinates and even screw it up even worse like in my case, where the car was swallowed half.

    So would it be an idea to limit the placement of the blocks to a certain number behind the dot, like for example 1 or two decimals.
    this way, we would only be possible to build blocks on coordinates like :1.10 - 1.11 - 1.12 - 3.65
    I think that with this limitation we still would have a lot of freedom to build as we see fit, but the snapping would be more precise and the rounding up or down while we leave the base would immediately be more accurate as well.

    Not sure if this made any sense, but I'm happy to explain more if needed.
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  8. #8
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    Because here is the latest and most detailed answer, I add here the list of all duplicate bugs and some statements. Else I cannot follow what was said and where.
    Quote Originally Posted by martinsustek View Post
    ...
    So now how to fix it?
    ...
    But we rather want to keep them visible in the scene and freeze them like the buildings are.
    Quote Originally Posted by martinsustek View Post
    ...
    We plan to "freeze" all the creations before they gets unloaded and do not unload big structures according their origin but the nearest point. But it will take some time.
    https://forum.planet-nomads.com/thre...ll=1#post14733
    https://forum.planet-nomads.com/thre...-of-the-garage
    https://forum.planet-nomads.com/thre...hrough-ceiling
    https://forum.planet-nomads.com/thre...ll=1#post14629
    https://forum.planet-nomads.com/threads/1844-HIGH-PRIORITY-Game-ate-%282%29-of-my-vehicles-tonight-after-huge-graphics-lags?p=14260&viewfull=1#post14260
    http://steamcommunity.com/app/504050...8202024953043/
    http://steamcommunity.com/app/504050/discussions/1/1700542332336759498/
    http://steamcommunity.com/app/504050...4915767568300/
    http://steamcommunity.com/app/504050...3255125788816/
    Last edited by Menzagitat; 11-03-2018 at 09:26 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Thanks Menzagitat for the very detailed explanation.

    Sorry I don't read the forum that thoroughly and am not aware of all the things crane balls is working on.
    Even in the known issues thread it's rather chaotic and I prefer to be playing more then reading the entire forum.
    I'm trying to catch up, but probably could use the search function more often.

    And just trying to be of any kind of help wherever I can
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaFuzz View Post
    ...
    About this issue I once read somewhere that it also has to do with rounding down numbers
    ...
    So would it be an idea to limit the placement of the blocks to a certain number behind the dot, like for example 1 or two decimals?
    this way, we would only be possible to build blocks on coordinates like :1.10 - 1.11 - 1.12 - 3.65
    ...
    Yes, the precision is also a thing to be improved sometime.
    I was wondering... if I stand on the Equator and I start building two parallel tracks toward the poles, will those tracks remain parallel?
    Or if I start building from the poles, what happens when I reach the Equator?

  11. #11
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    The coordinates precision seems to be less problem than we thought before. The main problem is terrain precision at distance and object unloading. A solution seems to be crystalizing slowly, we'll bring some first step in the next week probably.

    Building on sphere is full of paradoxes. When you build a very long track on Earth, you're naturally build it with some little curvature so you are able to make a road around the globe. This is not possible in the game, as blocks are straight cubes, so when you start building a track on the equator it will never reach a pole. We was thinking about using some kind of skewed cubes in a non-square grid, that will allow such curvature, but it will very complicate all calculations. And higher blocks will have to be bigger than lower ones, if you would drop a block from skies, it will get smaller, to fit into smaller grid near the center of the planet.

    At the early phases of development, we were also considering that we could make a flat planet, and add a curvature only with camera effect. That will make many things easier than on spherical planet, but you will soon realize, that you're not on a planet. For example, if you start on pole, go straight to the equator, turn right on equator, go some long distance on equator, turn right again and than go straight again, you will finally arrive back to the same spot on the pole. This is impossible on flat planet, you'll need 3 turns instead of 2. This is just an example of problems that we deal with since we've decided to do spherical planets.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinsustek View Post
    We was thinking about using some kind of skewed cubes in a non-square grid, that will allow such curvature, but it will very complicate all calculations. And higher blocks will have to be bigger than lower ones, if you would drop a block from skies, it will get smaller, to fit into smaller grid near the center of the planet.
    Hi Martin.

    Thanks for the in depth, much appreciated.
    Isn't there a modifier that can be placed on tools that they transform once they move away from a certain point (let's say the centre of the planet)
    So if they are near the centre of the planet, they will be very small and once they move away from the centre, they will grow.
    I think this will keep the calculations to a minimum. this will only make things complicated with the shape of the building blocks, because they need to be skewered as well, even if you rotate them.

    maybe this might help
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  13. #13
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    We don't want to go this rounded way, as we see it physically less correct than the one with right angles.

  14. #14
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Very well, just trying to think along
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  15. #15
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    Great update Craneballs!
    I was not expecting the solution so soon.
    Here is the first side-effect:
    https://youtu.be/qQm7XZIo7yA

  16. #16
    QA Lead (Craneballs)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menzagitat View Post
    Great update Craneballs!
    I was not expecting the solution so soon.
    Here is the first side-effect:
    https://youtu.be/qQm7XZIo7yA
    Can you send us save? We will look in to it

  17. #17
    QA Lead (Craneballs)
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    We released a hotfix moment ago. Please check if it solved your problem.

  18. #18
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    The state is much better. Here is still one problem.
    https://youtu.be/FFRA-hJT9oA

  19. #19
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    I've finally completed the frame of my hangar and decided to give it a try to see if my base would eat my vehicle that has no suspension at all.
    The hauler.

    Haulerhop1.jpg

    If you look carefully, you can see there is a square bulls eye on the floor and the hauler is standing nicely in the middle of it.
    From close up, it's nicely parked against the line

    Haulerhop2.jpg

    So I decided to see what happens if I would fly 2K out and back again.
    Once I returned, my hauler jumped back a bit.

    Haulerhop3.jpg

    So it didn't got eaten, but I'm not sure if this might lead to other problems.
    I still have 3 more vehicles to test out, so if I find something terrible, I'll ring
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaFuzz View Post
    Once I returned, my hauler jumped back a bit.
    Yes, indeed. Massive structures get a powerful "shake" sometime when they are instantiated.
    1. One is the load. Possible similar case is the teleport through stasis in creative mode.
    2. And the other is the chunk load.

    I have a huge fulcrum, possibly 400m long which got a strong oscillation when was loaded through 2nd method.
    I noticed this only once. I tried to reproduce it several times later but with less success.
    This behavior may disturb a vehicle resting on a suspended rail.

    Also I guess it is the cause of this bug:
    https://forum.planet-nomads.com/thre...ll=1#post15154

  21. #21
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    I can reproduce this jump of my hauler every single time.
    I noticed it when I wanted to test it and eventually I did it again and made those wonderful screenshots I posted earlier.

    What I'm want to try out tonight is see if I can get the hauler to fall of the platform, just by flying up and down between two of my bases ( or maybe it happens even when my main base gets unloaded and I won't have to fly so far.

    Some more testing coming up tonight
    Last edited by DaFuzz; 21-03-2018 at 06:01 PM.
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  22. #22
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    And testing has been done and the results were as predicted
    I am capable of dropping the hauler from the platform by just flying up and down.



    I think it has something to do with the poles and the equator
    This is just a theory, since I didn't test it out.

    My base is build on the southern hemisphere facing all sides rather equally to the north, south, east and west.
    My hauler constantly jumped back straight to the north.
    So in theory, if I would build a base on the northern hemisphere (same facings towards the poles), the hauler would probably jump south.

    Great job on fixing the eat my vehicle alive thing, (though, I should also test with other vehicles in a closed environment), but there's still a little side effect left.
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaFuzz View Post
    but there's still a little side effect left.
    send me save please

  24. #24
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    send me save please
    Will do tonight
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  25. #25
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    And here we go.

    www.transfernow.net/15hu04m4nkjn

    Have fun (yeah, yeah, I know, you're testing)
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

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