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Thread: Multiplayer question.

  1. #1
    Member raymondbh's Avatar
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    Multiplayer question.

    Just stumbled upon this game and it looks just awesome! Almost threw in the $100 at once, but then I thought I should check something first, does this game have multiplayer...? As it turns out it doesn't.

    So here is the question, how far down the road are you planing on multiplayer/dedicated server support?

    This game is a "must have" if it had multiplayer support, but sadly for me, without it's just another forgotten game.

  2. #2
    Member Maslostroj (Daniel)'s Avatar
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    Hello Raymondbh and welcome to the forum.

    You're not the only one asking about multiplayer and we realize its value. We're wondering which other games of this genre (with MP) are a joy to play. What are your favorites?

    To answer your question: It all depends on how successful the Q1 2017 launch is. If we can grow the team based on sales, we'd be looking at MP in about a year. We want to first concentrate on having a solid (SP) gameplay with things to do and then multiply that with a shared experience.
    "Well, I thought. This is how the world works. All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
    -Raoul Duke

  3. #3
    Kickstarter Wreck Nomad Wishblend's Avatar
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    Multiplayer support was one of the stretch goals but it didn't reach it on the kickstarter.

    Below was the stretch goals.





    So they are looking at it but it is not a near aim at this time.
    Always looking for hidden locations and ways to build

    See my builds https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...Zv_ap4HysL3HIl

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    Member raymondbh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maslostroj View Post
    Hello Raymondbh and welcome to the forum.

    You're not the only one asking about multiplayer and we realize its value. We're wondering which other games of this genre (with MP) are a joy to play. What are your favorites?
    Thank you. My favorites...:
    - Minecraft, modded of course is great, also I run some servers with my friends too (http://interburn.org).
    - Space Engineers, had a server going on this for my friends also, but SE was getting more and more buggy, and the building system is to... well fun the first hour, then it get's tedious.
    - ARK, had a server running on this too, but it never caught on. Not really sure why, it was a cool game, but something was not right.
    - Empyrion, running a server right now, and have played some hours. Really like this game, but miss the physics from SE (not the buggy once). This game can get great if the developers focus on the right things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wishblend View Post
    Multiplayer support was one of the stretch goals but it didn't reach it on the kickstarter.

    So they are looking at it but it is not a near aim at this time.
    That's a pitty... MP on PN I believe would be epic! And modding support... wow, then this game would have been the new Minecraft!

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Wazbat's Avatar
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    I guess it depends on necessity. It may or may not be a priority at the beginning but it will definitely be in eventually. I'm sure someone will figure out how to mod the game before the modding API is done too. Someone could even make something similar to DarkMP from KSP

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    I agree completely with OP. I found the game recently and I am loving every little bit of info I get on it. Unfortunately it not having MP is a bit of an issue for me as I love playing games with the clan, especially games like this.

    We have played Ark,Space engineers, 7 Days to die, Minecraft (modded and vanilla) and many other indie games that works like this. Games like that is absolutely boring and tedious when playing alone. But crafting and building a base to defend from invaders/enemies are a blast when doing it with friends.

    Without MP I will definitely keep my eye on the game and watch it progress, but with the inclusion of MP this would be a must buy and I think that goes for many other people.

    Also a quick note, I research a lot of indie games based on survival crafting and I have only recently come across this, so maybe the marketing needs to expand a little bit, definitely Steam EA would boost sales above and beyond the Multiplayer kickstarter goal.

    Please don't forget the multiplayer community and please dont break it as badly as Space engineers where people cant com e near each other in MP without an apocalypse happening

  7. #7
    Kickstarter Builder Nomad
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    I'm the opposite. I'm looking for games that are strongly developed for single player. Multiplayer is an after thought for me, I often don't enjoy it due to grievers. I rather see this game have s strong foundation in single player, before moving to multiplayer at all.

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    Member raymondbh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin (ShadowFlightBA) View Post
    I'm the opposite. I'm looking for games that are strongly developed for single player. Multiplayer is an after thought for me, I often don't enjoy it due to grievers. I rather see this game have s strong foundation in single player, before moving to multiplayer at all.
    Griefing is why Empyrion was so early out with its Factions and protection functions.

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    I think multi player should wait till late alpha early beta for release of multiplayer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin (ShadowFlightBA) View Post
    I'm the opposite. I'm looking for games that are strongly developed for single player. Multiplayer is an after thought for me, I often don't enjoy it due to grievers. I rather see this game have s strong foundation in single player, before moving to multiplayer at all.
    I couldn't agree more. I enjoy coop MP, but too many games add MP without sufficient focus on SP aspects. Not every game has to have MP to be worthwhile to all of us. In fact, if it weren't for the fact that they're focused on SP being solid first, I wouldn't have backed them yet myself. It's just illustrative of the "you can't please everyone" aspect of game development. They have to make a priority somewhere and, considering there are a fair number of sandbox-ish games with MP already, finding this niche to start out in makes sense.
    Last edited by Nilt; 26-05-2016 at 09:34 PM. Reason: Spelling

  11. #11
    Member raymondbh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nilt View Post
    I couldn't agree more. I enjoy coop MP, but too many games add MP without sufficient focus on SP aspects. Not every game has to have MP to be worthwhile to all of us. In fact, if it weren't for the fact that they're focused on SP being solid first, I wouldn't have backed them yet myself. It's just illustrative of the "you can't please everyone" aspect of game development. They have to make a priority somewhere and, considering there are a fair number of sandbox-ish games with MP already, finding this niche to start out in makes sense.
    There are always more than one opinion, and thanks for that...

  12. #12
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    I really hope they add multiplayer!

  13. #13
    Kickstarter Builder Nomad Azirahael's Avatar
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    I'd like multiplayer as an after thought.
    If they have time, they can add it.

    But the sheer quantity of complaints about Empyrion MP suggest to me it's not worth bothering with.

    Constant server issues, griefing of so many different types... not something i'm gonna be doing any time soon.

    A little coop with a friend, maybe.

  14. #14
    Kickstarter Wreck Nomad Wishblend's Avatar
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    This is my option on multiplayer.

    At this time P/N is concentrating on single player mode because the multiplayer support option was not reached in kick starter.

    I understand that as it is only a small team working behind the game and they are doing a very good job at this time, but there will be multi player sometime in the future when they get some time to devote more resources towards it.

    My feelings are that they concentrate on single player to make it the best game that they can at this time whilst also laying down the basic game support for multiplayer to be added at a later date.

    What date to work on multiplayer?

    I would say once the basic game is completed and is going through beta / gamma testing so that all the basic in game mechanics are finalised and resources can be shifted to enhancing the basic multi player options that where designed into the game from the get go.

    Multi player settings ideas.

    The option to add host and join player run servers.
    The option to join official run servers.

    The option to load a single player gave save as a basic level server that others can join (note:- once the single player game save is used as a player hosted multi player server, it generates a separate save file to keep the single player and multi player files separate).

    PVP & PVE options // When each server is getting set up, there is a toggle switch that goes from PVP & PVE (In PVP, you can attack other survivors (players) and in PVE you can not harm other survivors (players).
    Always looking for hidden locations and ways to build

    See my builds https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...Zv_ap4HysL3HIl

  15. #15
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    I wish I could enjoy games like this in multiplayer, but for me, the problem is simply that I don't have people to game with, and am not typically willing to join up with people I don't know, especially for a game that takes so much personal (time) investment to enjoy.

    But on top of all that, Multiplayer doesn't WORK in these building games, and here's why:

    Purpose. First and foremost, WHY play a survival game with other people? Can you share tasks? Well of course. "Bob, you mine, and I'll build." Well that works for a little while, until Bob gets terribly sick of mining and doesn't care for your architecture. Suddenly your game has become a sweatshop, and it's no longer fun. Not to mention, the THEME of these games is SURVIVAL. Two people living on the same world simply means twice the resources to gather, twice the space needed to colonize, and still the same, dumb AI elements to fight. So what do you really gain from coop play in a survival game?

    "Well, I want to enjoy PvP."

    That's fine, but these games don't truly provide a PvP environment. This is because these games lack complex "systems" that allow fights to drag out. Take EVE Online - arguably one of the greatest MMO's out there because of it's complexity in both combat, trading, marketing, etc. Battles can last for HOURS because of the different roles each ship can play, the complexity in fitting a ship, and the strategies involved in speed, tanking, and maximizing damage-per-second.

    In games like Space Engineers, Empyrion, and most likely Planet Nomads, NONE of this complexity can be realized. Every player has the same types of weapons available, every player can be equally as proficient with each weapon (no "skills" or "levels" that apply any kind of multiplier to damage, perks, etc.) and each ship has similar systems. I've read plenty of posts in Space Engineers where people say, "Well this is my combat ship - I have a different ship for industry." Why? The "industrial" components of Space Engineers consume just a few "blocks" of space - there's no reason any ship can't also contain components for refining & construction. You can put one or more of every block on every ship you build, potentially making every ship "the same."

    (Caveat - having said ALL of that, Space Engineers has the POTENTIAL to break this theory with the fact that it allows actual "engineering" - I've seen some WICKED ideas people have created using programmable blocks, warheads, gyros, and the projector block to build complex carpet bombs, guided missiles, and more. Meanwhile, you can't even exit a ship in Empyrion unless it has stopped moving, so you can't even build suicide ships.)

    So in all of these games, PvP essentially boils down to "Who has the bigger ship?" or in Space Engineers, "Who spent the most time over-designing their ship?" There's no power-management for shields or weapons, no systems to manage, no specialized abilities like cloaking or EMP - so there's no strategy. "Shoot until there's nothing to shoot at or nothing to shoot with..."

    I've often thought to myself that I'd LOVE to see a game like Space Engineers or Empyrion become the next "EVE Online: Perspectives" where you can finally abandon the separated, third-person feel of that game and actually LIVE in a "Massive Multiplayer" environment. Imagine a game where EVERY blueprint on the market was of a unique ship, and you could actually experience pride in piloting a ship that you've designed and/or built. Imagine the ability to hide a small space station inside an asteroid somewhere while plotting your strategy for a galactic takeover, without being forced into the complex rules and gameplay requirements of a game like EVE (such as renting systems, space police, sovereignty, and skill books).

    The problem is, no developer these days seems poised to make such a title. So many of these early access games fizzle before realizing their full potential. Even as it is, Planet Nomads stands to be the third-or-later game to enter this foray. What's going to set it apart from all the others? And not to mention, NONE of these developers have been able to get multiplayer to truly work - both Space Engineers & Empyrion players frequently gripe about server lag, rubber-banding, desynchronization, etc. I think MP works in Minecraft fairly well simply for the fact that it's an incredibly basic game, with no moving vehicles (besides carts) and minimal avenues for combat. That's also why I always found it incredibly boring to play beyond a few days.

    So really, if you're looking for a multiplayer, survival strategy game based in space, you've already got two options if not more. Maybe Planet Nomads can be a solid, enjoyable single-player title, and leave multiplayer to it's competition.
    Last edited by ViperMan; 16-06-2016 at 05:28 PM.

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    I would like MP at the beginning as well. I think if you want a game well funded you begin with MP because more people will buy it, simply because it offers aspects for all gamers, MP and SP. Look at money making sandbox games like ARK, they were well funded off the get go because they started with MP. I know it might be buggy but im sure they will have enough content from the get go. Honestly i dont know why you wouldn't start with MP, its harder to implement when you get further in to the game with more content and such. At least have coop so you have MP aspects and you dont have to redo alot of stuff after you have already implemented into it. I understand you want to make the best game possible, but i know my friends will not buy it till it has MP, so i think MP will pay for itself. The problem with not having it from the get go is that people kind of loose or forget about the game because others come out and it gets passed. I follow games and play them but really didn't start playing games like Empyrion till they had full blown MP. I already kicstarted to get into closed alpha and will play at the beginning but after the initial fun has worn off will probably wait till i can play with my friends, even if they have some cool content they added.
    just my take.

  17. #17
    Kickstarter Wreck Nomad Wishblend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutorx View Post
    I would like MP at the beginning as well. I think if you want a game well funded you begin with MP because more people will buy it, simply because it offers aspects for all gamers, MP and SP. Look at money making sandbox games like ARK, they were well funded off the get go because they started with MP. I know it might be buggy but im sure they will have enough content from the get go. Honestly i dont know why you wouldn't start with MP, its harder to implement when you get further in to the game with more content and such. At least have coop so you have MP aspects and you dont have to redo alot of stuff after you have already implemented into it. I understand you want to make the best game possible, but i know my friends will not buy it till it has MP, so i think MP will pay for itself. The problem with not having it from the get go is that people kind of loose or forget about the game because others come out and it gets passed. I follow games and play them but really didn't start playing games like Empyrion till they had full blown MP. I already kicstarted to get into closed alpha and will play at the beginning but after the initial fun has worn off will probably wait till i can play with my friends, even if they have some cool content they added.
    just my take.
    It all comes down to money.

    During the kick starter, multiplayer was part of the stretch goals that they did not reach.

    The core development group is only around 10 people and they needed to prioritise the order in witch they do things due to the funding and resources.

    Multi player will be coming but it is a case of they only have so many resources and money.
    Always looking for hidden locations and ways to build

    See my builds https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...Zv_ap4HysL3HIl

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutorx View Post
    I would like MP at the beginning as well. I think if you want a game well funded you begin with MP because more people will buy it, simply because it offers aspects for all gamers, MP and SP. Look at money making sandbox games like ARK, they were well funded off the get go because they started with MP. I know it might be buggy but im sure they will have enough content from the get go. Honestly i dont know why you wouldn't start with MP, its harder to implement when you get further in to the game with more content and such. At least have coop so you have MP aspects and you dont have to redo alot of stuff after you have already implemented into it. I understand you want to make the best game possible, but i know my friends will not buy it till it has MP, so i think MP will pay for itself. The problem with not having it from the get go is that people kind of loose or forget about the game because others come out and it gets passed. I follow games and play them but really didn't start playing games like Empyrion till they had full blown MP. I already kicstarted to get into closed alpha and will play at the beginning but after the initial fun has worn off will probably wait till i can play with my friends, even if they have some cool content they added.
    just my take.
    Your comment can basically be broken down to "You should add multiplayer because multiplayer is popular and people pay more money for multiplayer games."

    First of all, there isn't a lot of market information to support this. One word (and a number) - Fallout 4. Ridiculously successful, single-player only.

    Adding multiplayer that isn't FUN or engaging or provide any value to gamers simply means more people bitching at you and whining on Steam, "Multiplayer sucks because there's nothing to do."

    The much better review would be, "Wow this game is a TON of fun even without multiplayer - I hope they add multiplayer some day because it'll be even better then!"

  19. #19
    Kickstarter Builder Nomad
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperMan View Post
    Your comment can basically be broken down to "You should add multiplayer because multiplayer is popular and people pay more money for multiplayer games."

    First of all, there isn't a lot of market information to support this. One word (and a number) - Fallout 4. Ridiculously successful, single-player only.

    Adding multiplayer that isn't FUN or engaging or provide any value to gamers simply means more people bitching at you and whining on Steam, "Multiplayer sucks because there's nothing to do."

    The much better review would be, "Wow this game is a TON of fun even without multiplayer - I hope they add multiplayer some day because it'll be even better then!"
    Wise words

  20. #20
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    HI
    Well i do play a lot of Multiplayer on Empyrion so i do understand when people say about griefs and exploit users in game. But a lot does depend on the server and the admins who set strict rules about griefs and exploits as EAC does not always work against cheaters and exploits also introduction with offline protection. And i know for a fact that most people paying on HWS server is waiting for planet-nomads and most ask the same question will multiplayer be available in Planet Nomads and same with me i hope it will be available soon as it is a great way in bug hunting and finding exploits and reporting so it gets fixed. yes at first there will be griefs and cheaters and game spoilers but its still under development stage so building and destroying is also part of the fun on single player there is only so much you can do.

  21. #21
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    I would suggest, once the title hits steam - do not put multiplayer on the front page, even if it's a coming feature, just don't do it. People on steam are terrible at reviews, and they tend to thumbs down in reviews because a dev states something on their front page that isn't included yet. They rarely do their research on the game, then thumbs it down, and get a refund on the game.

    This goes for ANY features in the game you would like to add, but cannot commit to. I would certainly look at stating precisely what will and can be done.

    And yes this all boils down to money - the game cannot add MP out of thin air, with no funding to support it. If they're lucky, and get a decent publisher (please stay the hell away from Black Shell Media), then may be MP can be considered. Right now the focus would be SP I believe, and so this should be where they put all their efforts into to making the best it can be.

    I've been burned by a lot of similar games of this ilk:

    Starforge
    Grav

    To name but two. They spread themselves too thin (the devs of those games) and promised features they couldn't deliver because they tried to add everything at once. Resulting in broken games, terrible garbage games actually, broken promises, and then eventually abandoning the games when the money ran out.

    The last one is my greatest fear if the team focus on MP as well as SP, that the game will never be finished and will also be abandoned because of lack of funds.

  22. #22
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    @korefuji good points, Steam users can be very unfriendly about games and a lot of gamers there for sure do not research the games they buy. The just see some pretty images or a video and are sold on it, without having a clue what the game is all about. Just take one look at the No Man's Sky forum on Steam.... the game isn't even out yet and is already getting lots of flak, due to people being highly uninformed about the game.

  23. #23
    Member Maslostroj (Daniel)'s Avatar
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    Starforge ah yes. They even changed the name in the end to hide their tracks, didn't they? And then moved on to another game? Incredibly low.

    Didn't know Grave faced these troubles too, always liked the graphics of it.

    Thanks @korefuji for the tips, will keep them in mind when preparing the Steam page.
    "Well, I thought. This is how the world works. All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
    -Raoul Duke

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