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Thread: Roadmap for 2018

  1. #1
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    Post Roadmap for 2018

    I extracted the main ideas from:
    https://www.planet-nomads.com/2018/0...dmap-for-2018/
    into a new thread. I had to rework some sentences though.
    Here is the steam thread, updated with progression:
    http://steamcommunity.com/app/504050...1698692388941/

    Onboarding

    • rework the first minutes of game experience to teach the new players in a more controlled environment all game mechanics from easier to the harder ones

    Survival
    Animals
    • We will make killing animals with multi-tool impossible. From the start we will equip you with a pistol and limited number of bullets for emergency use. In later stages it will be possible to make more bullets and better weapons
    • new animals with a different behavior:
      • less predictable
      • not bound to nests
      • they will be able to damage buildings

    • we still want to keep possibility to play peaceful without the need to kill everything that moves
    • usage for happy living animals like milking or eating eggs

    Planets
    • change the way how planets are generated so it will not be so easy to obtain endless water by digging down for few seconds
    • to make the building of advanced blocks more challenging:
      • the layout of materials in biomes will be changed
      • recipes of different blocks and items will be updated


    Block Destruction
    • we will introduce damaging of blocks. This will make killing animals by cars detrimental
    • collisions will not destroy your vehicle totally, but heavy collisions could put functional blocks out of order until you repair them

    Weather
    • fix current bugs, like raining inside
    • more types of weather; some rare weather types will make you run as fast as you can to find a shelter

    Building Improvements
    Build vision
    • We will make building independent on build vision, so you will be able to turn it on even in cockpit or build without looking on all unnecessary augmented reality stuff
    • display mass and its center for better construction of flying vehicles

    Blueprints
    • save creations and build dozens of them easily
    • exchange them with other players (for example in Steam Workshop)

    Block Coloring
    • We have added block coloring recently

    List of Blocks
    • rearrange blocks into groups more logically
    • filter by name
    • more useful information into tooltips
    • better thumbnails

    New Blocks
    • conveyors connectable between grids
    • electrically controlled rotor and hinge
    • mechanical gears
    • logic gates

    Vehicle Controls
    • a terminal in each cockpit - you will be able to control all vehicle functions without going outside
    • possibility to move buttons from the terminal into the new vehicle hotbar. (For instance you can move light switch to first hotbar slot and then turn your lights on or off just by pressing key "1")
    • battery monitor
    • altimeter and altitude indicator into the vehicle GUI

    Kickstarter Rewards
    • designing shipwrecks, holograms or statues: we have already finished and tested the blueprints saving and we will soon use it for purpose of collecting shipwreck designs from our kickstarter backers
    • we'll advertise the final round of shipwreck design submissions and then put them all into the game

    Other plans
    • hope: the roadmap should not take the whole 2018
    • unmentioned surprises
    • small improvements suggested on forums
    Last edited by Menzagitat; 17-03-2018 at 07:57 PM. Reason: added link to steam thread

  2. #2
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    How do you color blocks?

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    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad fura's Avatar
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    Press middle mouse button when holding the tool, that brings up the color picker menu. Select a color. Any newly welded block will have that color. Or you can re-color existing blocks by just firing on them once with the tool (LMB).
    I made screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/D1FM7 \o/

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    Senior Member Vrmithrax's Avatar
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    Block damage will add some fun dynamics to the gameplay in general. But devs, if you are reading this: please, for the love of all that is holy, don't add conveyor part damage until the "only 1 end" connection limitation has been fixed. If we have a damage system in place that lets a central conveyor part be destroyed, the current system will result in destruction of any connection in that area, even if we replace the part with the exact same conveyor piece. I can see nightmares of having to systematically destroy and rebuild entire sections of vehicles or bases because a single conveyor connection got destroyed. It happens already when you accidentally hit it with your multi-tool, and is frustrating enough without having to worry about environmental destruction issues as well.

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    I wonder if any collision will damage the vehicles, like falling from high altitude or hitting a wall.

    I guess the damage will not remove blocks and break connections, but will only bring the block back to the first stage, where you have only it's skeleton and you must add more materials to make it work again.
    However if this is what developers want to do, then we can still make such invulnerable shields using incomplete parts.
    Unless the damage occurs also in the core of the vehicle, beyond the "shield".

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by fura View Post
    Press middle mouse button when holding the tool, that brings up the color picker menu. Select a color. Any newly welded block will have that color. Or you can re-color existing blocks by just firing on them once with the tool (LMB).
    That was helpful.Nowhere did I find that info.

  7. #7
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    Sorry for not mentioning colors in game, we'll be doing new tutorial and surely include it there.

    About destruction - it will be some approximation of collisions from physics engine, maybe with some other destruction sources, like slow wearing of moving parts. So every big impact could hurt your creations. But it will not be possible to break it completely. So when destruction gets to certain level, block will no longer be functional, but could be easily repaired, like Menzagitat said.

    We see impossibility to connect disintegrated grid as a big weakness of the game, so be sure that we do not want to make it worse.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinsustek View Post
    [...]
    We see impossibility to connect disintegrated grid as a big weakness of the game, so be sure that we do not want to make it worse.
    I am not sure why merging two grids in not possible.
    Blocks, not matter how big they are, if the player selects a square on a grid and a square on the other one, the two grids could be rotated and translated until they merge.
    The realism of such an action might be questionable though, if it happens like if a Jedi is doing this.

    Anyway, can you tell us a bit more about the blueprints?
    How will they work? What should we NOT expect?
    In the above example, if I would like to weld two grids together, I wonder if I could save one of them as a blueprint, deconstruct it, and build it again, attached to the other grid.
    Or, if I would like to make a 8000 km long suspended rail, I could easily do it by using one 400m long sample saved as a blueprint, placing them 20 times (but breaking them again to have segments).
    Will such scenarios be possible?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menzagitat View Post
    I am not sure why merging two grids in not possible.
    Blocks, not matter how big they are, if the player selects a square on a grid and a square on the other one, the two grids could be rotated and translated until they merge.
    The realism of such an action might be questionable though, if it happens like if a Jedi is doing this.
    It is not completely impossible, but we must do it in physical-safe way, as we do not want to make whole buildings shake and launch to the skies. So we need to compute appropriate forces to move it where you want to. So at least one of them must not be grounded and also have low enough mass, to be able to be moved by safely small forces. Also there should be not obstacles in the way and the shapes of the parts must be suitable. Sometime there is only one way to connect the two shapes, and doing wrong move could make parts block each other.

    After you have joined the two parts (grids) by forces to nearly precise alignment, you can delete one and re-add all contained blocks to the another one while correctly recalculating in-parent positions and maintaining block settings in one giant lag. That will change the weight and other physics properties by one big jump and that is risky from physics point of view.

    It is somehow doable, but general feeling will be similar to winch, which we honestly do not consider the best part of the game.

    At least I am still thinking about adding possibility to re-join once divided grounded grid, if both parts have not moved (kept grounded all the time). This eliminates the necessity to move grids and the risk of physics glitches as well as does not need to introduce any artificial player interaction. And will make possible to fix mistakenly split conveyors and allow to replace one or more connecting blocks with another if both resulting parts are still grounded. If this will be successful, we could try to reuse it to make more sophisticated version with physics manipulation working on non-grounded parts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Menzagitat View Post
    Anyway, can you tell us a bit more about the blueprints?
    Currently we can save the machine you point on to a file. With all block settings and contents. We use it to spawn shipwrecks, monuments etc. at the start of the new game.

    We are working on scenario where you point on some empty ground and the blueprint spawns there as an unapproachable "construction site" box that you finish by your multitool while consuming resources. Once you will have finished it, construction box will disappear and you will be able to use your (or somebody else's) creation. So it will be separated grid. Currently we still do not have a way how to build it on another grid, at least we can use some variation of the re-add all contained blocks function mentioned earlier.

    It is more an user interface question - how should be player supposed to point with big grid (or connected grids) in hand on another grid and tell exactly which block from the new (not yet existing) grid should fit on which one in the grid in the scene. You know how difficult is to put 8x5x3 block precisely, and imagine yourself doing it with 20x30x50 size blueprint by means we have now in game. This is the thing we should solve now.

  10. #10
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    Lightbulb the builder

    Quote Originally Posted by martinsustek View Post
    [...]
    It is more an user interface question - how should be player supposed to point with big grid (or connected grids) in hand on another grid and tell exactly which block from the new (not yet existing) grid should fit on which one in the grid in the scene. You know how difficult is to put 8x5x3 block precisely, and imagine yourself doing it with 20x30x50 size blueprint by means we have now in game. This is the thing we should solve now.
    I have a vision. The vision looks like this:
    • The concept of blueprint is meant to be a representation of the object you want to build.
    • It is stored in the pda.


    Reference use-case: I want to build a 20x400x20 structure [A] attached to another building [B].
    One easy way to do that is to scan and store the building [B] as a blueprint.
    Inside the pda, I am supposed to be able to visualize at a reduce scale each blueprint in my list.

    There I can:
    1. select [B] as a target
      • rotate around B and move the point of view, like in real world (but without avatar, gravity, friction, collisions...)
      • select a welding point - to be marked with easy to see colors
      • (nice to have) B could be shown in the position it is placed in the world

    2. select [A] as the new object
      • rotate around A
      • select a welding point

    3. show both [B] and [A] attached to each-other on the marked points
      • rotate [A] around the only possible rotation axis
      • (nice to have) rotation axis and overlapping parts could be highlighted
      • (important) To correct errors it must be possible to switch to step 1 and back to 3 easily, without the intermediate step 2.

    4. press "create" to save the instructions into a "builder" and (if requested) deconstruct and put the materials of A into a "special WiFi" described below.
    5. the player should be able to duplicate easily a builder loaded with instructions. Very useful in case of suspended rails
    6. the "builder" is a dedicated tool which
      • should be able to project a 1x1x1 virtual block
      • the builder when is held in the hand, it should evaluate (on click event) if a target building is a match with the saved [B]. Provide feedback with sound and change of builder color, to indicate "ready to attach" state. The 1x1x1 block should snap to the point selected in step 1.
      • in "ready to attach" state it will allow
        • to weld a "special WiFi" to the marked spot selected in step 1
        • to scan another building and attach to it
        • to cancel the attachment


    7. the "special WiFi":
      • should be able to keep showing (projecting) the structure [A] as a hologram (green=ok; yellow=overlaps terrain; red=overlaps a structure or a creature/avatar)
      • should allow to hide the projection of structure [A]
      • evaluate (on request?) if there are enough materials in range to start building and to show what parts are missing
      • should be able to receive a "start build" signal from the dedicated builder tool
      • will be consumed during the build process
      • should be able to accept and hold components until enough are gathered to start building
      • to prevent it being the most efficient container, it should give the materials back only by building the structure



    Step 1,2 or 3 can be started with an empty builder or a loaded builder.
    The player should be able to have several builders, each prepared for certain build scenarios.
    Alternatively, the builder can be a unique tool which can hold a list of build scenarios.

    Nice to have: the builder should be able to chain build scenarios
    For the 2019 road-map: the builder should be:
    • attach-able to blocks
    • able to execute chained build scenarios on certain triggers
    Last edited by Menzagitat; 17-03-2018 at 07:07 PM.

  11. #11
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    Should we be able to specify a "base point" from an attacheable 1x1 surface by pointing it when we make a blueprint, we could then target another 1x1 surface on another construction and have the blueprint's 1x1 surface be aligned and connected to that if there is no overlapping preventing the attachment. For making the targeting easier, the blueprint's construction box might be better be just a hologram instead of a solid object that we cant walk through.

    It will most likely be a pain to implement, but imagine being able to dismantle half of your vehicle, make a blueprint from the other half and before attaching a mirrored blueprint to to that half you would add a few blocks to widen the main hull. Non-symmetrical machinery hanging from a conveyor port would prevent mirroring, so those would need to be dismantled before creating a blueprint that we wish to mirror, but that would be acceptable tradeoff for not needing to waste time on rebuilding half of the vehicle by hand every time you think you could improve the desing by making the center line of the hull a bit wider or slimmer.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Vrmithrax's Avatar
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    I was contemplating how to go about utilizing blueprints just last weekend. Leaving out the difficulty of using a blueprint to build something that is attached to another structure or vehicle, doing a stand-alone structure or vehicle could be fairly simple...

    My vision is this: You first pick a blueprint (mechanism for how to view and such to be determined). It then projects just like a block does now in Build Vision - holographic, red when it's in a location that is incompatible with the build, green when it's OK to build, allow axis and rotation changes just as you would a single block. Once you click down to lock in the final position of the blueprint, it continues to project in that spot (maybe change color to yellow or blue or something to indicate it's incomplete).

    Then comes the building. It can be a simple (but rather unrealistic) process, if we just want convenience - we simply whip out our multi-tool and fire away at the glowing projection of the blueprint as it pulls components out of our inventory or wireless conveyor dispensers, until all components have been placed and the object is complete. If we run out of parts and can't complete the build, it remains with the glowing holographic projection over it, and is not able to be interacted with until we get the final parts and finish the build. Only once it is 100% complete does the projection halo disappear and the object become usable.

    The build process could be spruced up, made interesting by having it snap build each part in rapid succession, all frames first, then final plating (mimicking the block building animations already in use). That would make it easy to begin establishing the structure immediately using just frames, if you have to gather the more complex parts to finish the entire plan.

    We could also get a little crazy and maybe have some kind of building drone that can be built to semi-automate the process, that you deploy once you have locked in a blueprint to be built, rather than having to spam the multi-tool key throughout a build. I know I read a thought about that somewhere in the forums here or on Steam, and the image stuck in my head ever since. The drone could zip around and cause the same build animations to happen, pulling parts from a wireless dispenser, and just pause and hover when/if it runs out of parts to finish the job. Once completed, the drone would ideally zip back to us and fall back into our inventory.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAAHAS View Post
    Should we be able to specify a "base point" from an attacheable 1x1 surface by pointing it when we make a blueprint, we could then target another 1x1 surface on another construction and have the blueprint's 1x1 surface be aligned and connected to that if there is no overlapping preventing the attachment. [...]
    I guess this is the easiest solution.
    It means the blueprint will have to store that origin point / "base point" before it is being saved as a blueprint.
    Changing that origin would mean to save multiple blueprints, each with a different point, and selecting the one from the list which fits better.

    The second step, the building, would be better to be broken in two stages. One where the connection point is selected, and the one where the building starts.
    The reason is that we might have some cases where the avatar itself cannot fit close enough (without overlapping the hologram) to start the building process.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinsustek View Post
    You know how difficult is to put 8x5x3 block precisely, and imagine yourself doing it with 20x30x50 size blueprint by means we have now in game. This is the thing we should solve now.
    Exactly the problem I described here, if you still remember: https://forum.planet-nomads.com/thre...ll=1#post14157

    If you can solve the UI and stuff so that it is not too complicated for the user, you'll have a way to attach blueprints anywhere. Or place blocks exactly where the user wants it, without having to walk backwards until it finally snaps.

    I could try to make a video showing the PE tool to help understand it better.
    100% linux gaming

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    Thinking to the use-case where I want to adjust my vehicle, I realized we need one more "requirement" and I will insert it in my detailed proposal above.
    Usecase: The player wants to insert some blocks in the middle of his vehicle.

    1. He brakes the vehicle in two
    2. He add the additional blocks
    3. He scans as blueprint the half of the vehicle which must be reattached
    4. He attaches it to the main part to make it whole again


    The problem is that he might have the original half vehicle lying down near his workplace.
    We must get the option to retrieve the materials during this blueprint creation process. But not always. It must be the player decision.

    Now the question is where those materials should be stored.
    A special container is needed for them. This could be the "special WiFi" I described in the proposal before.
    But I named it "special WiFi" to prevent people to misuse it as a container. Therefore it must be a push-only container from which the player can retrieve materials only by building the blueprint and deconstructing it manually block by block.
    Last edited by Menzagitat; 06-03-2018 at 06:56 AM.

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    From the start we will equip you with a pistol and limited number of bullets for emergency use.
    In later stages it will be possible to make more bullets and better weapons

    I consider this a fatal design defect as self defense is more important early game than it is after establishing a base. Even in a basic 3d printer bullets are some of the simplest things you can make. Although to be honest I would also argue that improvised or primitive melee weapons would be better than a pistol. One of the worst things a game developer can do is not provide players with a last ditch melee attack which renders them artificially crippled and defenseless if they run out of ammo. Realistically the average person in a fight for their life would reach for any improvised weapon they could find be it a rock or pointed stick. Of course they will probably still die but at least they have some sort of chance of defending themselves. Even if the multitool beam cant hurt a creature I should still be able to use the stock as a club
    Last edited by Mike Loeven; 07-03-2018 at 07:36 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Loeven View Post
    From the start we will equip you with a pistol and limited number of bullets for emergency use.
    In later stages it will be possible to make more bullets and better weapons

    I consider this a fatal design defect as self defense is more important early game than it is after establishing a base...
    What I understand is that the player will get some powerful weapons because now with the multi-tool we can just tickle the Godillos.
    I think they want to implement this scenario advertised here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UxJ-UCNdlI

    But a high-end weapon would ruin the progression if it is is acquired and available from the beginning of the game.
    Maybe the plan is to have different kind of bullets or as they say, bullets which have to be produced and not with a trivial, easy to find material.
    Once the player will secure the area surrounding the landing pod, he can always plan ahead and explore in different directions.
    Unless monsters will attack periodically like in 7 Days to Die or Don't starve together.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craneballs
    The layout of materials in biomes and recipes for different blocks and items will also be updated to make it more challenging to build more advanced blocks.
    People are asking for ore scanners.
    But maybe some people might want to search more, to have the incentive to explore.
    I wonder if you can somehow satisfy both kind of players, the ones who want to get the materials easier and the ones who like prospecting.
    And how will that mineral discovery work? Will it be luck based or will it be a bit more interesting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craneballs
    We plan to change the way how planets are generated so it will not be so easy to obtain endless water resource just by digging down for few seconds.
    I was thinking...
    What will happen if we will dig a channel from the beach toward the inland? Will the water flow into the channel? Can we make rivers on the new terrain?
    • If no, what will happen if we find an island and we dig it away?
    • If yes, what will happen if we remove the last piece of soil connecting the channel with the sea? Will the channel fill instantly?
      • What if we place a block to separate the channel from the sea again?
      • Will we be able to build a reservoir using foundation blocks?
      • Will rain fill such reservoirs?

    • ice?
    Last edited by Menzagitat; 14-03-2018 at 09:00 PM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Vrmithrax's Avatar
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    That water behavior you are explaining is one of the things I actually liked about Planet Explorers when I first got a hold of the game, Menzagitat. You could dig next to a body of water and have it remain dry until you broke a barrier to let the water flood in.

    They also had an interesting digging dynamic that helped with the flattening issues - the terrain had an inherent grid built in, and your shovel would dig an area that was 1 block deep (upgraded shovels covered a wider area, still 1 deep though). The area to be affected by the shovel highlighted prior to you hitting the button to dig, so if you paid attention you could easily clear a large flat area. If you accidentally dug too deep, you could drop a dirt block in to fill the hole, which would automatically align to the terrain grid. Had its limitations, but overall it was an easy way to let you sculpt your environment. Oh, and the pickaxe was similar, but dug in a cube shape instead (like 3x3x3 for example). Would be nice to have that kind of flexibility for terrain modification in PN, sometimes.

  20. #20
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    PE has a massive advantage: flat grid voxels with a smoothed surface instead of a voxel sphere
    100% linux gaming

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    Senior Member Vrmithrax's Avatar
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    Yes, it's a bit of apples-to-oranges comparison on the grids between the 2 games, but I started wondering if something like this could be incorporated somehow. so I mentioned PE's approach to tools. Technically, I suppose, you could spherically grid and layer so that each hit from the tool peels back just 1 layer deep, then the next hit goes down the next layer, etc. Like an onion. Not ideal, and buildings would still wander off the ground as you build farther out, but it would at least allow some terrain flattening and other basic geo-engineering functionality.

    Probably a lot of work to implement into the world generation, though. Ugh.

  22. #22
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    They mentioned already the volumetric water in some threads.
    http://steamcommunity.com/app/504050...11027315291459
    Also the steam store page tells us that they want to "develop water that pours over the land"
    I think we will be able to make submarines too with that small cockpit and captain bridge mentioned here.
    http://steamcommunity.com/app/504050...19962086383625

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    Hey everyone,

    First I want to share my thoughts about PN in general, it is an awesome game so far and you are doing a great job ! Reading the bugs forum page it sometimes seem that people complain a lot. That's why I want to tell you that I really like your ideas and future approach!
    For me personally PN is more relaxing than survival which is a good thing. It is even more like a "building" game without pressure but yet with the need to organize supplies (in survival mode). The landscapes are beautiful, especially the desert! Is there the plan to include frozen lakes or something? That would add realism in polar regions.
    I have no specific idea for the roadmap but would like to tell you what I think would be beneficial for PN. I guess you're fiddling around a lot with grid properties /physics and thechnical issues, making the game work and that's fine. Apart from that, if you revamp the planet generation I suggest the following:

    I think that the game would greatly benefit from an improved perception of scale. Such as increasing the viewing distance and maybe planet size even? The feeling to see a mountain far away and being able to walk there for a long time would be motivating. With bigger planets, biomes and mointains could have a true size which would definitely add to the experience.

    Basically the "player - nature" interaction is based on mining, digging and walking on it. You could think of a way to give peolpe a reason to stay somewhere and a reason to leave, independent from resources. I could think of illnesses where you find the cure somewhere else only. Or beautiful regions with extreme benefits but also natural disasters, potentially destroying buildings.
    More interaction with the nature in terms of working with it would be great. Concrete example: One specific plant, only existing there, not growable, giving it e.g. electrolyte water to make it produce a cure for illnesses or some kind of "enhancement" which you would not get from the cure station .... .
    Anther idea: bases and miners could create pollution, making your environment ugly (and animals aggressive). Solution could be a fertilizer from a few plants only growing in special regions or something inside the soil which you only find there. It could be used to make your environment rich and nice again.

    I can imagine that implementing this would be an immense task. These are just some ideas though and what I think would make the game even better. Happy working!

    Cheers.

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