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Thread: Improved jaxk

  1. #1
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Improved jaxk

    Hi guys.

    Right now I'm building my new flyer after a third try, I decided to go for a smaller craft, because my other two where huge.
    The first one wasn't capable f taking off, so I decided not to put on any large utilities (container, springs), but the second got to complicated and I got to eager to fly, so after I removed the jack I destroyed it immediately.

    (note to myself, save more often)

    Now while I'm building my third craft, I wondered about the maximum weight an aircraft could handle with how many blades.
    Is there some way to calculate this and does it get unstable after a certain weight/blade ratio?

    Would it be an idea to create a new jack that allows the user to have more control over the vehicle that's build on it (springs, breaks, speed, weight, lift)
    That way, I don't have to worry so much while building a vehicle, about the maximum weight and I don;t have to run and fly around the vehicle to adjust the settings.

    Gives me more time to be creative and enjoy the lovely planet
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  2. #2
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    This was covered already but here's the skinny. Small fans can lift about 640# each. This does not include the weight of the fan. If you get heavier about 700# height is really low. On the large fans about 10k # per fan with max about 12k # . You should start a game in creative for testing purposes. Stability is having the fans above center of mass. I made flyers with 1,2 and 3 fans to get to the ore fields. You get 8E2 chips from salvaging your pod. Thats enough to build the 2 fan flyer.New Mk2 has steering. If you don't start with a pod then it gets complicated.

  3. #3
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tp555 View Post
    This was covered already but here's the skinny. Small fans can lift about 640# each. This does not include the weight of the fan. If you get heavier about 700# height is really low. On the large fans about 10k # per fan with max about 12k # . You should start a game in creative for testing purposes. Stability is having the fans above center of mass. I made flyers with 1,2 and 3 fans to get to the ore fields. You get 8E2 chips from salvaging your pod. Thats enough to build the 2 fan flyer.New Mk2 has steering. If you don't start with a pod then it gets complicated.
    Thanks for the intel, much appreciated
    I'm not really sure if I can exactly follow you with the 640# per fan that they can lift.
    Does that mean one basic square block (or 640 square blocks), or one cockpit?
    Will the angled building blocks be lighter since they are not as big as one or two square building blocks?
    What is the weight of a large container or large spring?

    This is approximately where my question comes from.
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  4. #4
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    All parts have specs for weight, electric power or need of that. Don't know measure used pounds or kilos so # is used as weight. Count the total weight of all parts. Fans are 60# and can pull 700 up so lift value 640# not counting the fan weight. Using angle blocks where possible is what I do.They weigh 15# instead of 30# the solid block does. This affects altitude of your flyer. Drop some weight and altitude goes up. Planet R determines your max altitude. Same design goes 80# (whatever they use) up on a 10R planet and 200# on a max 24R planet. See "airblade inventions" thread for vids and info on different designs.

  5. #5
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Thank you very much tp555, that was very illuminating.
    I must have looked over it, but where in-game can I find these weights?

    Edit: thanks, I found the weights in the build menu itself.
    You've been a real help tp555, however my request remains
    Last edited by DaFuzz; 31-01-2018 at 03:55 PM.
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  6. #6
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    The fact is that blades are physics driven, they just add some force, there's not specified how much they can lift. But it could be guesstimated with some experience. We plan to add mass calculation and center of mass indicator into the BuildVision(tm) once we found out some clear way how to display it.

    Each block has different mass, but it's always the same no matter if it's just skelet or finished. Also containers have the same weight no matter if empty or full. Game recalculates mass distribution on block addition or removal so you should take care of weight balancing a little.

    I am not sure if I responed for all your questions, so ask more, I'll try to answer.

  7. #7
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Hi Martin.

    Thanks for the heads up.
    I do have some suggestions however.

    The Buildvision(tm) is in my opinion getting a little cluttered with information.
    If I'm building a vehicle with lots of containers and batteries, it's getting real hard to add some extra blocks while seeing how I rotate or place them.
    So maybe there is a possibility to filter the build vision (for example: building blocks/battery/propulsion settings)
    This way we can clean up the HUD with information as needed instead of getting all the information and missing what I'm doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by martinsustek View Post
    Each block has different mass, but it's always the same no matter if it's just skelet or finished. Also containers have the same weight no matter if empty or full. Game recalculates mass distribution on block addition or removal so you should take care of weight balancing a little.
    Thanks to tp555 I figured out the different weights and an aproximate lift power of the airblades.
    However it still doesn't respond realistically to me.
    Unfortunately I have no pictures of my airblade vehicle I was building this weekend, however I build a lot and tried most of them out and came to the following conclusion.

    I calculated my vehicles as follows:
    1 airblade = 600 lift
    10 containers = 2000 weight

    so I need 4 blades (4x600=2400) to lift my vehicle from the ground.
    I'll double the number of blades to make sure that I have enough lift for all the other blocks and small batteries as well.
    So I create a flyer that has 8 blades

    The airblades do take off, however as tp555 already mentioned, the heavier the vehicle is, the less altitude it's going to gain.
    So logically, I installed more blades to correct the weight with some extra lift, however that doesn't really matter at all, the altitude cannot be gained by adding extra blades.

    As you already wrote, you are already planning mass calculations, so I guess tha covers this complaint already.

    So to summarize my requests (even though they might already be added in the near future)

    1. Filter the Buildvision HUD.
    2. Correct the weight/lift ratio of airblades.
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  8. #8
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    Place nav beacon on the ground then go up to max. Drop chests and retry. This gives you an idea of how much lift you have. Also what size planet do you play? On 10R you get about 80#. on 24R you get 200# using the same design. Max I ever got was 350# on 24R planet using test biogen flyer with one large fan and 3200# weight. Each 1000# added lowered the altitude 15#. Posted the vid already in this forum.

  9. #9
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Thanks tp555, but the way I checked it, was to build an airblade and before I'd remove the jack, I saved the game.
    Removed the jack and flew around a bit to test the vehicle. (especially the altitude to which the vehicle could climb.
    After I tested it, I Ioaded the game again and made adjustments where I thought was necessary.
    However the altitude remains the same. no matter how many blades I add.
    This could be corrected by removing weight from the vehicle and then try the flight again (save, fly, load again)

    In all situations, the weight cannot be conquered by adding more blades, meaning my creativity is being stalled by airblades with the minimum number of blocks and a max of 10 small containers (makes up one big container again, minus the weight)
    This is so far the best viable option to fly high, however this makes a very ultralight vehicle with very little nice to look at, just primarily the most needed parts to make it a whole.

    So, the weight is eventually determining how high you can go, without any possibility to compensate it by adding more blades.

    My airblade platform on my base is rather high up, so my airblades would barely be able to fly up, usually I had to "walk"the airblade of the platform to be able to fly, however, after that I could not land on the platform any more, so I know how high the airblade could get.
    After my lightweigt airblade, that problem was solved
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  10. #10
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Suck it

    So I flew to a mining base towards the north, closer to the equinox, to pick up some ore and maybe find some new ore.
    I saved the game when I arrived there and went to sleep, so today I started the game and stepped into my wonderful advanced flyer that I used to fly there anyway.
    Unfortunately, the weights are maybe somewhat heavier near the equinox, since I can't seem to fly up anymore.

    I managed to fly it to a little lower part, so you can see my maximum hover height
    The mountains in the distant is where I flew over, only very close, since I'm already high above the sealevel

    Damnyou.jpg

    I guess I just have to tear it apart and build a lighter version, because I don't have a hoverjack with me, nor the materials to build one.
    Nearest base is about 2K south

    I think weight distribution should be a thing soon
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  11. #11
    Senior Member Vrmithrax's Avatar
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    I had the same problem as you did, DaFuzz. I had a fairly compact floating base / carrier that I could fly over land obstacles to get to the next large body of water. And then suddenly that same machine could no longer fly. I could get it out of the water, and it would hover just a bit over the water level, but that was it. Nothing else was changed on it, but it went from a slow-flyer to a no-flyer overnight.

  12. #12
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    Had this also on a flyer. Worked great collected ores. Save and exit then next time flyer is hugging ground barely off the ground. had to redesign. don't know why.

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    Hi guys, do you have large and small blades combined on your flyers, or just one type? If both, try to remove all the small blades and keep only the large ones, and tell me, if that helped. Maybe the problem of combining small and large blades is larger than we tought.

    Otherwise we'll have a look at saving/loading of blades generally. Does is work only before load since vehicle construciton, or does is survive some loads and after higher amount of loads it got corrupted?

  14. #14
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Hi Martin.

    I do not have the resources to build large blades yet, so I only fitted small blades (as you can see in the picture as well)
    As I wrote in my previous post from yesterday, I flew towards the tiny base on the left and came from over the mountains you see up ahead.
    I landed, saved, quit and continued the next day.

    That's when I stepped into the flyer and noticed it wouldn't go up anymore.
    I even stopped the game and reloaded it again, unfortunately to no avail.

    To be more precise, I created the vehicle the same day I flew to that base, it was my first flight.
    I build it specifically to reach high altitudes.
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  15. #15
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    I'm done

    I've spent a lot of time in building flyers this weekend and so far, all of them have failed my expectations. (aprox. 8)
    My latest creation that I build to get away from my mining base is also incapable of taking off, so I'm going to restart the game and stick with ground based vehicles until the airblades are fixed.

    Airblade.jpg

    *feeling disappointed*
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  16. #16
    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad fura's Avatar
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    That seems to bee a bit too many containers for just 4 small blades. Containers are quite heavy apparently, so you need more blades to lift that.
    I made screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/D1FM7 \o/

  17. #17
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fura View Post
    That seems to bee a bit too many containers for just 4 small blades. Containers are quite heavy apparently, so you need more blades to lift that.
    Could be, I've created a 4 blade flyer as well with only 5 containers.
    it took off, it flipped upside down and I needed to land it on it's top.

    The problem I have at the moment with airblades is that there is not really any logics behind it, meaning i need to build an airblade vehicle and maybe the result might be that it will fly up high, or maybe it wont be able to fly over a mountain.
    There is just to many uncertainties to build airblades to a certain expectation and the only way to increase the altitude of the airblade is to strip it from it's weight.

    I've spent the entire weekend building and deconstructing airblades to build the best airblade possible.
    I started with some fancy nice looking flyers, but they didn;t get very high.
    So I build basic flyers, but still they were incapable of flying over the mountains.
    Finally I build the most basic flyer capable and I posted it's problem on 5-2-2018, after loading it didn't take off.

    Something that kills my joy in a game is keeping me at the same spot, doing the same thing over and over again.
    So for me, my savegame was becoming a big disappointment, since I was stuck for two days already at a mining facility and had to jetpack back 2K or (guess what) try to build another airblade.

    building airblades 4 days in a row, because I want to explore the planet is counter productive to me for exploring the planet.
    That's why I restarted the game again, because I enjoy the building and exploring, however I should not be busy 4 days with the same object
    So now I can do all those things again that make the game great, instead of trying to keep the game fun with failed experiments.

    I shared my savegames and frustrations, and just hope it will be taken care off, and maybe I will proceed with this savegame.
    Or maybe I restart the game again once the bugs and unfinished code start bugging me again (pun intended )

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by fura View Post
    That seems to bee a bit too many containers for just 4 small blades. Containers are quite heavy apparently, so you need more blades to lift that.
    Could be, I've created a 4 blade flyer as well with only 5 containers.
    it took off, it flipped upside down and I needed to land it on it's top.

    The problem I have at the moment with airblades is that there is not really any logics behind it, meaning i need to build an airblade vehicle and maybe the result might be that it will fly up high, or maybe it wont be able to fly over a mountain.
    There is just to many uncertainties to build airblades to a certain expectation and the only way to increase the altitude of the airblade is to strip it from it's weight.

    I've spent the entire weekend building and deconstructing airblades to build the best airblade possible.
    I started with some fancy nice looking flyers, but they didn;t get very high.
    So I build basic flyers, but still they were incapable of flying over the mountains.
    Finally I build the most basic flyer capable and I posted it's problem on 5-2-2018, after loading it didn't take off.

    Something that kills my joy in a game is keeping me at the same spot, doing the same thing over and over again.
    So for me, my savegame was becoming a big disappointment, since I was stuck for two days already at a mining facility and had to jetpack back 2K or (guess what) try to build another airblade.

    building airblades 4 days in a row, because I want to explore the planet is counter productive to me for exploring the planet.
    That's why I restarted the game again, because I enjoy the building and exploring, however I should not be busy 4 days with the same object
    So now I can do all those things again that make the game great, instead of trying to keep the game fun with failed experiments.

    I shared my savegames and frustrations, and just hope it will be taken care off, and maybe I will proceed with this savegame.
    Or maybe I restart the game again once the bugs and unfinished code start bugging me again (pun intended )
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaFuzz View Post
    Could be, I've created a 4 blade flyer as well with only 5 containers.
    it took off, it flipped upside down and I needed to land it on it's top.

    The problem I have at the moment with airblades is that there is not really any logics behind it, meaning i need to build an airblade vehicle and maybe the result might be that it will fly up high, or maybe it wont be able to fly over a mountain.
    There is just to many uncertainties to build airblades to a certain expectation and the only way to increase the altitude of the airblade is to strip it from it's weight.

    I've spent the entire weekend building and deconstructing airblades to build the best airblade possible.
    I started with some fancy nice looking flyers, but they didn;t get very high.
    So I build basic flyers, but still they were incapable of flying over the mountains.
    Finally I build the most basic flyer capable and I posted it's problem on 5-2-2018, after loading it didn't take off.

    Something that kills my joy in a game is keeping me at the same spot, doing the same thing over and over again.
    So for me, my savegame was becoming a big disappointment, since I was stuck for two days already at a mining facility and had to jetpack back 2K or (guess what) try to build another airblade.

    building airblades 4 days in a row, because I want to explore the planet is counter productive to me for exploring the planet.
    That's why I restarted the game again, because I enjoy the building and exploring, however I should not be busy 4 days with the same object
    So now I can do all those things again that make the game great, instead of trying to keep the game fun with failed experiments.

    I shared my savegames and frustrations, and just hope it will be taken care off, and maybe I will proceed with this savegame.
    Or maybe I restart the game again once the bugs and unfinished code start bugging me again (pun intended )

    - - - Updated - - -



    Could be, I've created a 4 blade flyer as well with only 5 containers.
    it took off, it flipped upside down and I needed to land it on it's top.

    The problem I have at the moment with airblades is that there is not really any logics behind it, meaning i need to build an airblade vehicle and maybe the result might be that it will fly up high, or maybe it wont be able to fly over a mountain.
    There is just to many uncertainties to build airblades to a certain expectation and the only way to increase the altitude of the airblade is to strip it from it's weight.

    I've spent the entire weekend building and deconstructing airblades to build the best airblade possible.
    I started with some fancy nice looking flyers, but they didn;t get very high.
    So I build basic flyers, but still they were incapable of flying over the mountains.
    Finally I build the most basic flyer capable and I posted it's problem on 5-2-2018, after loading it didn't take off.

    Something that kills my joy in a game is keeping me at the same spot, doing the same thing over and over again.
    So for me, my savegame was becoming a big disappointment, since I was stuck for two days already at a mining facility and had to jetpack back 2K or (guess what) try to build another airblade.

    building airblades 4 days in a row, because I want to explore the planet is counter productive to me for exploring the planet.
    That's why I restarted the game again, because I enjoy the building and exploring, however I should not be busy 4 days with the same object
    So now I can do all those things again that make the game great, instead of trying to keep the game fun with failed experiments.

    I shared my savegames and frustrations, and just hope it will be taken care off, and maybe I will proceed with this savegame.
    Or maybe I restart the game again once the bugs and unfinished code start bugging me again (pun intended )
    Air blades need to be higher than center of mass. Otherwise it will flip over.Watch my vids and see a high wing holding the fans. When crash happens and flyer is upside down from finger hitting wrong key. Flyer will self flip very easy. Four fans can hold up a biogen and one chest. Add more chests lose altitude.
    There is weight limit and balance needed.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDgi8JIPiR4
    This is low level fans with balance example.

  19. #19
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    DaFuzz, I am not sure, if you sent us that save game. Could you please send me a link to save where you cannot fly the vehicle that flown before? We could check what's wrong with it, maybe there's a bug in saving or some other problem.

  20. #20
    Senior Member DaFuzz's Avatar
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    Hi Martin.

    You are absolutely right, I didn't post it (facepalm)
    I also don't have the save game anymore, however I can give you another save game, just before I headed towards my base which is about 5 or 10 minutes flying north.

    I've posted it in this thread

    Just load the game, and fly to mu most northern base near the equator, land and save the game.
    After reloading, you'll probably won't be able to leave with the vehicle.

    Hope it helps and sorry for the extra flying hours
    Why on earth would someone spent all his time in life being a little bit creative, when you can go all the way?

  21. #21
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    In my case no.Only played 1 large fan as test case. Bug happened weeks ago. Worked great saved exited.Then return and its 1 foot off the ground max. had to dump chest for less load. don't have the save. too long ago.

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