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Thread: [MED PRIORITY] I cant fly up anymore

  1. #1
    Kickstarter Alpha Nomad
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    [MED PRIORITY] I cant fly up anymore

    Game Version: 8.0
    OS: Windows 10 64b
    Simple Description: From a certain time, I cant fly up whith Air Blade vehicle anymore.
    Detailed Description:This bug occured whith my new air vehicle (link). All was fine until I started to travel North. I found one monument and setup little mining base there, but very soon I started to get radiated and I could not cure mylself - pills cant keep up curing radiation and stasis pod also doesnt work there, so I died few times there as my health went from 100 to 0 in about 1min after few moments when red radiation warning appeared. Then I wanted to leave that place and at that point I noticed that I cant fly up, I can fly down but no up, only when I hit mountain and rise my altitude by "driving uphill". I can descent anytime but nope in opposite direction. I assumed it may be by that harsh location, but even when I traveled 10km and more to South, nothing changed. Then I tryed to load old saves when I could fly up back then - ofc I cant do it now even in old saves.
    Also, I dont loose altitude spontaneously while flying.
    Reproducibility: Since that bug occured, every time
    How to Reproduce: Dunno
    Any additional information: Save included - save_84.db , _main.db
    Log file:https://pastebin.com/ZBDiNBNS
    DXdiag:https://pastebin.com/fmRbVZ8S
    Last edited by Jimmy; 24-11-2017 at 07:59 AM.
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  2. #2
    Kickstarter Builder Nomad Azirahael's Avatar
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    I have found a few places where the height of the ground exceeds the max height above sea level that blades can fly.

    I assume this is not what you encountered?
    In that you could go up in a spot, and then suddenly, you couldn't any more?
    Not even when you went down, and then back up?

  3. #3
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    Thats right, I landed my craft and when I wanted to fly it again, this happend. I can fly down to water level(I didnt try to submerge yet, as I assume it shoudlnt work underwater ) and still cant go up. Second thought after harsh location reason( it can affect jecpack so why not blades) I thought they added weight for items in cargo as I filled my craft whith quite a lot of ore, even I dont read anywhere that devs added this feature, so as "last resort" I tryed to unload it but still same problem. Even after I restarted PC, it still cant go up, its really annoying.
    I got feeling like when I press key for going up, my blades dont even react on it (at least their sound seems same as when they just hovering) only when I ram some hill they start to work at full power, but only when my wheels are in contact whith ground - as soon as all of wheels are in air, blades recude power and just keep same altitude.
    I even tryed to remove all wheels, no luck. Shutdown power off/on also didnt work. Last thing I can try is to remove all blades and build them again - and this is time I regret there isnt at least option to set steering and direction when you holding ghost object in build mode and when you would build it, it would already had set settings so I just could build one side, set different settings and build next side of vehicle - it would made building big builds way more comfortable (or in my case usualy rebuilding/upgrading my design when I got new idea, but to implement it I usualy need to remove majority of wheels, air blades... etc...soo a lot of work by setting them up one by one when you have for example 40 of them ).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Soo... I tryed to rebuild all air blades, no sucess, I even tryed to rebuild cockpit but still same result. I guess there must be something wrong whith information about that exact grid I have build, if game engine works that way, because I build new simple blade craft to test if it would go up, and it did.

    I recorded how my craft behaves now, note that I pushed key for going up almost entire time, but it work only when I "drive up hill" - also when I dont push key for going up while driving uphill, it wont work and I just stop moving since wheels cant propel this vehicle. You can clearly see that blades rise (or maybe it just want to stabilize my craft to vertical position - so raising my back up to match the altitude of front...) my craft when I only have two front wheels in contact whith hill and I hold keys for forward and up direction, but as soon as it wont get pushed up by any terrain, it just start hold the same altitude everywhere I fly it.

    PS: at the end, I just played a little whith it and you can see that it can keep same altitude even whith a lot of blades missing, so it is really not a weight problem, like I tryed to remove that two 3D printers and refineries (I tested it just to be sure even it could go up before whith no changes in blocks configuration)

    Last edited by Jimmy; 24-11-2017 at 04:32 PM.
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    Monuments give off radiation.
    There is a flight ceiling that is lower than highest mountains.
    Modifying my airplane mid air caused that it didn't climb no more.

  5. #5
    Kickstarter Unique Nomad Veshke's Avatar
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    Just a 'me too' for the flying up issue. It worked at first but now the only way I can get any altitude is to bump into hills and slowly inch my way up. Going down works fine. I am assuming I have something set up wrong but then I remember it worked at first. It seemed to change after I powered down the vehicle the first time and then powered it back up.

    My vehicle is very basic - cockpit - reactor - 20 small containers and 16 air blades. Also a few extra blocks at the back to help balance the front-heavy design.

  6. #6
    Member Maslostroj (Daniel)'s Avatar
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    This does sound like being connected with the altitude limit for blades (thin air), but if the altitude changed during playing, then there could be a bug. Let us take a look.
    "Well, I thought. This is how the world works. All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
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    Hello Nomads.

    I am also experiencing lack of lift on a new air blade vehicle.

    First vehicle which was a tiny runabout with cockpit, a few battery racks and originally had 4 hover pads. I put it on a hover jack and swapped to air blades. Worked wonderfully.

    Second vehicle built from scratch had a cockpit, reactor, about 20 small containers and 8 air blades, built on mechanical jack. Right out of the gate had no lift. It flew very fast across open water, when I went to bank around back to the base, the center of gravity was above the blades and it flipped over. What was interesting was that as soon as it flipped, I could ascend and descend "normally" even though I was flying inverted. I landed and used a winch to right the vehicle. It continued to ascend and descend normally.

    I decided to move the air blades above the center of gravity, so I put the new vehicle on a hover jack, stripped off everything but the cockpit and reactor.
    I modified it to a gull-wing type of arrangement using the interior wall 1x1x7 as supports for 5 blades per side.
    I added two of the suspension components on each side and a string of 10 small containers each side as a landing skid. I noticed immediately that there was no lift at all, even though the vehicle will hover fine in hover mode. Vehicle will descend normally, and even function underwater. ( I guess they are hydro blades as well) I'm going to try a few other things to see if I can get it to ascend, I'll post if I have any success.

    NoLift.jpg

  8. #8
    Member Maslostroj (Daniel)'s Avatar
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    Thank for another bugged case, we're on it.
    "Well, I thought. This is how the world works. All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
    -Raoul Duke

  9. #9
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    Nomads,

    I think we are seeing an interaction between the ground and the suspensions used on air blade vehicles.

    I completely rebuilt the gull wing above, with the same results. built two other flyers without suspension components. They ascended fine.
    I noticed that I had a slight height increase due to the suspension spring travel and then it came to a hard stop.
    I just decided to zap the landing gear off the flyer and now it ascends.

    Hope this helps you all.

    ************
    Nope, scratch that. As soon as I begin adding containers as landing skids (more than five or so) the vehicle will not ascend.
    *************


    Regards,
    Sam
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 28-11-2017 at 04:21 PM. Reason: Updated Info

  10. #10
    Kickstarter Unique Nomad Veshke's Avatar
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    Hi! An update on this - not sure if it helps any.

    I think the issue is the small containers - I love using them as structural components in vehicles because their shape and size are perfect and, yay, more storage capacity as I explore! But...

    When I made a vehicle of the exact same design as the one mentioned above and replaced all but eight of the small containers with either the short inner wall block or the ordinary square full armour block then my vehicle flew perfectly. Nothing else changed except the removal of the small containers.

    Are the small containers set to weigh way more than other things??

  11. #11
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    Are you kidding me! 200 kg lbs whatever per small container! No wonder why I cant get off the ground!

    So what is the lift capacity of air blades in comparison to hover pads???

    My hovercraft with like 28 containers and 11 pads has no problem.
    Compare that to a helicopter with 6 containers and 10 air blades and it barely makes it off the ground.

    Hovercraft.jpg

    Helicopter.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 08-12-2017 at 03:04 PM. Reason: Wrong Image
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    Re flying over mountains - perhaps this gives you some additional information:

    https://forum.planet-nomads.com/thre...ll=1#post13229

    And yes - you need a lot more air blades to lift heavy weight high than hover pads to glide low.
    And positioning of blades is crucial, depending of your basic aircraft block design and weighting.

    Sometimes you do better with high placed blades, sometimes low, I myself with a combination. My gaming partner and I experimented for 3 days to get our optimal results (for the time being, there may be future experiments) going into usability and not into optical design.
    We both ended up with two completely different versions - both generator driven freighters with 18 to 20 containers, good performance and max speed and height.
    We also each created our own versions of small and easy to build battery driven vessels, mine going 50 with 4 air blades and 8 containers, his speeding 72 with 6 air blades and 8 containers.

    Thatīs the final stage of my mountain climbing freighter below. I tested and I could lift it with 4 blades less - but I kept them on because in this design it is more stable during acceleration and landing.
    It is a little bit tricky to drive on plateaus over flying height but after getting accustomed to it I now can drive farther than before - not only over mountain passes. Still there is a limit due to its weight but I managed to get higher and longer distances than when I posted first. When I do not need to go over flying height I turn off the hover pads and remove the front one.


    Re primary topic and bug report: I too noted that rebuilding an aircraft can introduce changes in behaviour - or getting it glued to the ground and you have to shoot it free even when the craft is seemingly in the air and has no visible contact to the ground. As already stated it must be some undesirable interaction of the blades with the ground and will hopefully be repaired as they are already working on it.
    F.i. Once after doing several consecutive changes during the testing phase and having to shoot it free at least one time I lost max speed and went down to 50 and performance was queer not reaching much height - reloaded the save game and was at 72 and max height again.
    I am not always sure if some queer behaviour after a rebuild is due to my design or due to the game especially if I do a lot of changes in a short time.

    Question off topic: How do you format your screenshots? I cannot make mine bigger than that or they will go over upload size (using jpg).
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by oh016; 09-12-2017 at 02:25 PM. Reason: Always problems with typing and formatting text

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by oh016 View Post
    Re flying over mountains - perhaps this gives you some additional information:

    Question off topic: How do you format your screenshots? I cannot make mine bigger than that or they will go over upload size (using jpg).

    I use the "gnome-screenshot -w -d 6" in Linux from the command line (-w active window) with a ( -d 6 delay of six second) to setup my screenshot.
    It automatically creates a .png and I save it to desktop.
    I then open the image using GIMP and export as a jpg.
    During export I turn on advanced options, Set subsampling to (4:2:0 chroma quartered).
    I then crank down the quality slider until It gets to about 97Kb file size (Usually between 25 and 50 works.
    A couple of times I had to use GIMP to crop the image like the air blade flyer in the center picture above.
    Then just save it with whatever name I want and upload.

    Just had to crop this image down to single monitor size with a quality setting of 13

    ExampleLeft.jpg



    It's a bit of a process, but it is relatively quick once I've done it a few times
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  14. #14
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    Thanks for this very detailed information :-) You are simply great!

    I will try and see if my configs and programs are adaptable to some management like that but I fear it will take me some time to find a way - it IS a bit of a process!

    For my next posting I fear I have to stick with my ugly small ones :-(

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