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Thread: Suggestion: animal behaviour

  1. #1
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    Suggestion: animal behaviour

    At the moment, animals respond quite static. They mostly guard places and they only interact with players within a certain distance. This distance is not based on visibility.

    I would suggest to have animals behave with more curiosity: when I see them, they should see and hear me as well when they look in my direction and at least turn to me to investigate me. Because the player is strange and new to them. So maybe an animal does not start to throw rocks immediately. I mean, the response should be more unpredictable, I think, like real animals.

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    I think animals that are now in game are just placeholders, so at least few of them are there.

    But they interact, different species have different aggro range, gorrilas have quite long and they go attack you immediately, same whith small red spit balls etc. But true is they are really dumb and they tend to got stuck almost everywhere.


    One thing I notice is that in 0.5.4, I usually see only one animal per nest, in previous versions there were at least 4 of them, is it bug (still better one than that animals multipliying bug )or devs reduced it?

    PS: what do you mean by if you can see them, they can see you? That would mean you will got attacked all the time as I can see a lot of nests and animals sometimes, but in every game I saw it never work this way and they have just some aggro radius which can be blocked by line of sight, but they never react on you from far away and I dont want it either.


    Edit: What I hope is that they will add some species which will roam around some point and if they find player, they will attack him. But it will be after devs will add weapons I guess
    Last edited by Jimmy; 13-05-2017 at 01:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    Edit: What I hope is that they will add some species which will roam around some point and if they find player, they will attack him. But it will be after devs will add weapons I guess
    We don't have a confirmation about weapons yet; in fact a reply from Petr (a few weeks ago) suggested that they are considering not adding actual deadly weapons, although I have no idea what do they think currently.

    I also hope that the current AI is just a placeholder for something that will have much more states and will exhibit much more complex and convincing behavior. Because currently it would not fare well if we compared it to any modern game's AI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post

    PS: what do you mean by if you can see them, they can see you? That would mean you will got attacked all the time as I can see a lot of nests and animals sometimes, but in every game I saw it never work this way and they have just some aggro radius which can be blocked by line of sight, but they never react on you from far away and I dont want it either.
    I mean that animals should act more natural. So, when you see an animal looking your way and you can see the animal, he should see you and not only after being at a certain distance (unless it has bad eyes). At larger distances, the animal might not attack directly, but maybe keeps watching the players movements, follow him or back up a bit. Only when you enter a distance that is uncomfortable for the animal, it will flee or attack. Of course the behaviour will be different for different animals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanverm View Post
    I mean that animals should act more natural. So, when you see an animal looking your way and you can see the animal, he should see you and not only after being at a certain distance (unless it has bad eyes). At larger distances, the animal might not attack directly, but maybe keeps watching the players movements, follow him or back up a bit. Only when you enter a distance that is uncomfortable for the animal, it will flee or attack. Of course the behaviour will be different for different animals.
    I never saw this kind of sight reaction in any similar game as far as I can remember. It also would be quite hungry on cpu power I guess as there are many things it had to calculate this way. It may could be done that game just notify animals from far away, even they cant see you.

    What other players think? I think aggro radius mechanic is fine and devs just need to add more type of species, as we discussed in here https://forum.planet-nomads.com/thre...0-More-animals . Lurking predators, tracking and hunting even player, fights between animals.... that whith different types of AI behaviors should be enough as GaborB said.


    Devs even had "gif" of migrating drove of space cows in background So I think they want it too
    ( https://www.facebook.com/PlanetNomad...9758387491987/
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaborB View Post
    We don't have a confirmation about weapons yet; in fact a reply from Petr (a few weeks ago) suggested that they are considering not adding actual deadly weapons, although I have no idea what do they think currently.
    What?? I only remember that I read about not adding wpns any time soon and that they dont want to gime us weapon right from start of the game, to force player flee more, but as you progress you should get some wpn.
    Last edited by Jimmy; 13-05-2017 at 08:20 PM.
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    Kickstarter Builder Nomad Azirahael's Avatar
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    If they go the way of subnautica, i'm outta here.

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    well.. it's quite hard for me to imagine the situation, that I'm survivor on hostile alien planet and I am able to build nuclear reactor but unable to build even a basic weapon.. a bit strange, isn't it??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertak View Post
    well.. it's quite hard for me to imagine the situation, that I'm survivor on hostile alien planet and I am able to build nuclear reactor but unable to build even a basic weapon.. a bit strange, isn't it??
    Unless you come from a pacifistic race But normally, it would be very strange. I would find it odd if they don't add lethal weapons at all, after all the multitool is lethal as well.... it only takes a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azirahael View Post
    If they go the way of subnautica, i'm outta here.
    What worries me even more is this whole talk about adding multiplayer close after release. That is one thing that Subnautica did well, not adding multiplayer before the game is pretty much done. You're right though, we don't need another Subnautica at all. We also don't need yet another broken multiplayer game. Let them first create a good game and fix all the issues, shortcomings and lacks first before even considering adding multiplayer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    What?? I only remember that I read about not adding wpns any time soon and that they dont want to gime us weapon right from start of the game, to force player flee more, but as you progress you should get some wpn.
    I looked up that reply, this was the relevant part:

    "As far as gun goes, we are not entirely decided yet to put it in there as it is huge boost for player in the beginning and takes away from the atmosphere."

    So maybe you're right, perhaps it sounds more like they will add it to a later part of the progression instead of providing it from the start.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin (ShadowFlightBA) View Post
    What worries me even more is this whole talk about adding multiplayer close after release. That is one thing that Subnautica did well, not adding multiplayer before the game is pretty much done. You're right though, we don't need another Subnautica at all. We also don't need yet another broken multiplayer game. Let them first create a good game and fix all the issues, shortcomings and lacks first before even considering adding multiplayer.
    I'm pretty sure that multiplayer is out of the question already, except if the game will be very successful (are we still expecting that?).* Unity doesn't provide a lot of useful features for a more complex multiplayer implementation (from what I read in multiple sources), so most likely they would need to write their multiplayer code effectively from scratch, which is not easy. They don't seem to be fast even with relatively simple game features, so I could imagine that multiplayer would take a year or two. But an awful lot of conjecture here, I admit.

    *See this reply, the paragraph starting with "Now as for the future plans"
    Last edited by GaborB; 14-05-2017 at 11:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GaborB View Post
    I looked up that reply, this was the relevant part:

    "As far as gun goes, we are not entirely decided yet to put it in there as it is huge boost for player in the beginning and takes away from the atmosphere."

    So maybe you're right, perhaps it sounds more like they will add it to a later part of the progression instead of providing it from the start.
    That is quite different from not having lethal weapons. I'm fine with not having weapons from the start, though they shouldn't be too far out.

    Quote Originally Posted by GaborB View Post
    I'm pretty sure that multiplayer is out of the question already, except if the game will be very successful (are we still expecting that?).* Unity doesn't provide a lot of useful features for a more complex multiplayer implementation (from what I read in multiple sources), so most likely they would need to write their multiplayer code effectively from scratch, which is not easy. They don't seem to be fast even with relatively simple game features, so I could imagine that multiplayer would take a year or two. But an awful lot of conjecture here, I admit.

    *See this reply, the paragraph starting with "Now as for the future plans"
    I read that reply before and I understand the hard choices they have to make now. Multiplayer being out of the question..... I really would not mind that, since I really don't need yet another promising game that ends up broken because the developers feel preasure to add multiplayer hoping for more sales. It happens all to often. On top of it, the multiplayer crowd is too loyal anywway, they move on as soon as the next 'similar' game arrives, leaving a trail of broken games behind them, because the feel the need to loudly make known that a game needs multiplayer to be succesfull. I do wish this game to be succesfull, but it doesn't need multiplayer for that, there are succesfull singleplayer games as well. Though I must admit in this genre there are few since too many developers switch to multiplayer to quickly and that's why we end up with so many broken games in the genre. The multiplayer crowd is way less forgiving then singleplayer gamers are. Still, hard choice to make for a developer.

  11. #11
    Kickstarter Builder Nomad Azirahael's Avatar
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    Each to their own.

    Multiplayer is for me, a nice bonus, but no big whoop.
    For others, it's a total necessity.

    From my perspective, survival on a hostile alien world in a survival game, without weapons is just bizarre.
    It also becomes even harder to justify when you have tools that can just beam matter into existence.

    And 'because that's not our vision.' is a shitty explanation.

    The Subnautica people went one further and decided to remove all lethal weapons for the player from their game to protest Sandy Hook.
    Now, as much as SH was a bad thing, WTF does that have to do with getting eaten by sharks, underwater on another planet?
    I mean if Subnautica was a game set in a school, that would make sense. Or if the school was a diving school, that would also make sense.

    So for reasons that don't make sense, You can't defend yourself. You can't even tie a knife to a stick, and make a spear. Or a speargun.
    You can literally beam a submarine into existence from the stuff in your pocket, but no gun.


    Same here.

    I'm totally ok with not being granted a huge armory from the get go.
    But it's a survival game. There's stuff that wants to eat us.
    And the ability to fight back is a key component of survival.
    And we can sort of do it now by jamming a welder into a creature's eye socket.
    At least we should have some tools to make that less likely to get us killed.


    There's weapons in the trailer.
    There's weapons on vehicles.
    The better be personal weapons for you to find/research/unlock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin (ShadowFlightBA) View Post
    I read that reply before and I understand the hard choices they have to make now. Multiplayer being out of the question..... I really would not mind that, since I really don't need yet another promising game that ends up broken because the developers feel preasure to add multiplayer hoping for more sales. It happens all to often. On top of it, the multiplayer crowd is too loyal anywway, they move on as soon as the next 'similar' game arrives, leaving a trail of broken games behind them, because the feel the need to loudly make known that a game needs multiplayer to be succesfull. I do wish this game to be succesfull, but it doesn't need multiplayer for that, there are succesfull singleplayer games as well. Though I must admit in this genre there are few since too many developers switch to multiplayer to quickly and that's why we end up with so many broken games in the genre. The multiplayer crowd is way less forgiving then singleplayer gamers are. Still, hard choice to make for a developer.
    The funny thing is that while in PN people are asking for multiplayer, in multiplayer games like the ROKH which is coming out tomorrow, they are asking for single player, many of them saying they don't like multiplayer games.

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    Hello guys,

    just a quick note in this beautiful morning, sicne we got our hands full with launch.

    Weapons will definitely be in game. They will just not be available from the start, but you will be able to craft them in Armory.

    Cheers, Petr

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azirahael View Post
    ... The Subnautica people went one further and decided to remove all lethal weapons for the player from their game to protest Sandy Hook.
    Now, as much as SH was a bad thing, WTF does that have to do with getting eaten by sharks, underwater on another planet?
    I mean if Subnautica was a game set in a school, that would make sense. Or if the school was a diving school, that would also make sense.

    So for reasons that don't make sense, You can't defend yourself. You can't even tie a knife to a stick, and make a spear. Or a speargun.
    You can literally beam a submarine into existence from the stuff in your pocket, but no gun. ...
    Not that it makes up for the lack of weapons, but did you know that you can pick up the yellow exploding eggs, and use them as "ammo" for the propulsion cannon (you can also create torpedoes from the same eggs)? Some people do that, although I never found it really practical. Though, overall I think it's a great game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZVous View Post
    Hello guys,

    just a quick note in this beautiful morning, sicne we got our hands full with launch.

    Weapons will definitely be in game. They will just not be available from the start, but you will be able to craft them in Armory.

    Cheers, Petr
    Awesome, just don't let the basic weapons be unlocked too far down the line

    Quote Originally Posted by Azirahael View Post
    The Subnautica people went one further and decided to remove all lethal weapons for the player from their game to protest Sandy Hook.
    Now, as much as SH was a bad thing, WTF does that have to do with getting eaten by sharks, underwater on another planet?
    I mean if Subnautica was a game set in a school, that would make sense. Or if the school was a diving school, that would also make sense.
    Oh, I didn't know that, I don't have the time to be involved with every game I own. So, they're political correct developers then, caring more about their status in the real world, then about the people that play their games? Kind of a strange descision, especially if you know that most of the gamers aren't from the States at all.

  16. #16
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    It is tough to read the animals are placeholders, in our minds a placeholder is Peter's face used as icon for different materials. But generally speaking yes, animal AI is currently an early iteration of what we want to achieve. It appears updating Unity will open more possibilities (more optimized pathfinding), but updating now before the launch wouldn't be wise.

    As for the success and future and multiplayer and further development - when you are a small studio from the Czech Republic full of passionate devs you don't need a million copies sold to be successful ;)
    "Well, I thought. This is how the world works. All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
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