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Thread: Feedback on 0.5.4 Final "easy" suggestions for EA launch

  1. #1
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    Post Feedback on 0.5.4 Final "easy" suggestions for EA launch

    I have been playing version 0.5.4 for some hours, and based on the experience – plus on the conversations with other players during the last weeks – I collected the following easy-to-implement (?) change suggestions for the upcoming EA launch:


    1. Major: Set a default seed to avoid seed-dependent disappointments:
      Select a seed that produces a world with optimal starting environment, and make custom seed an additional option. Because otherwise players can end up spawning underground, deep in a mountain side, around small floating terrain pieces, etc. And presumably a lot of players won’t simply account these issues to the particular seed they are using, but they might simply conclude that the “game sucks”.
    2. Major: Increase inventory size by around 50%, unlock the storage box earlier, and/or put an inventory on the escape pod:
      Currently the starting inventory space is very limited, causing a lot of potential/eventual annoyance. Since building requires all components in the inventory at the same time, players are often forced to drop items on the ground, which is annoying by itself, but new players will be also annoyed if they see their items disappear. This is further exacerbated by the fact that we can't split stacks or put items back to printer inventory. But simply increasing the inventory slots would help temporarily.
    3. Minor: Hide the “unlockable” inventory slots:
      It confused me when I first played the game, and I saw it happening recently in a YouTube video too. Players can think first that they still have empty inventory slots, because it’s not obvious that the dash outlined slots are not usable. Also, their presence is not particularly useful in any way, because they don’t communicate how to unlock them.
    4. Major: Disable block unlocking, or make only a few unlock tiers:
      During the last months I only saw one player commenting positively on the block unlocking. It perplexes and annoys the majority of players. I’d suggest to turn it off until it’s further refined, or to make only a few unlock tiers, e.g. every simple block (consisting of frame and plating) should unlock at the same time including ramps, simple walls, etc.; similarly, all tier 1 production blocks should unlock at the same time, then tier 2 blocks, etc.
    5. Major: Auto-populate the 1–4 quick slots with food and drink items when they are first picked up:
      Players’ attention should be drawn to the use of these quick slots, because they make drinking and eating much less of an annoyance. Without drawing their attention to them, quite possibly they won’t realize their usefulness until many hours into the game.
    6. MAJOR: Integrate tool battery indicators prominently into the HUD:
      I didn’t realize how fundamental tool batteries are in 50 hours of playing, and consequently I thought that the multitool usage is simply intolerably bad. It’s very important to communicate players that normally the multitool should have a battery inserted, and you have to show prominently the charge of the current battery. A large tool battery meter showing the charge percentage, which turns to reddish color when battery slot is empty, would do the trick.
    7. Minor: Disable the forced waiting between eating and drinking:
      I can’t see this adding anything else than annoyance; especially bad if the player has issues finding food, and has to use bio paste. Until the survival mechanics is properly refined, I’d definitely suggest to disable this forced waiting, to let players fill their stats comfortably.
    8. Major: Introduce temporarily a crude helper function to flip vehicles back to the wheels:
      Literally anything would do, no matter how crude (“press B to flip back”). You can count on players getting very annoyed after their vehicle flips over and they can’t possibly get it working again. Currently it’s almost literally impossible, and very often deconstructing is the only solution.
    9. Minor: Increase wheel torque:
      It seems that almost all players who tried vehicles are complaining about their ability to climb elevations (without momentum). New players will be surely annoyed. Increasing at least the slow speed mode’s torque would help a lot.
    10. Major: Increase character walking speed, also possibly the running speed (slightly):
      Walking movement (especially on low stamina) is often very clunky on steeper or uneven terrain, or around/on rocks; it feels unreliable, and a lot of things seem to stop the character. I’d suggest increasing walking speed until the character movement is improved. Arguably it’s better to let players have some fun moving around in this early stage of the game…


    (Edit: Removed the last suggestion ("Disable nutrition and hydration decrease when in stasis chamber"), because I realized that players could simply wait there until a single nearby fruit regrew, thereby circumventing a lot of the survival aspects.)
    Last edited by GaborB; 08-05-2017 at 11:17 AM.

  2. #2
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    I completely agree with this. After spending a good deal of my weekend in PN all of these points are very relevant to assisting to a successful EA launch.

    I'd also add the obvious. Fix the worst of the bugs!

  3. #3
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    I see you've added some of my suggestions here, cool I agree on all them, though #3 isn't an issue for me, I totally understood there are unlockable slots. I'd still say they should show them, then you know what you can get, but make them red and crossed out perhaps. #9 isn't minor perhaps, since it has been brought up a lot and makes vehicles useless in most of the worlds you generate.

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    We need hovercraft!

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    Not sure I agree with 7, though I have tried surviving on the biopaste and it is extremely tedious. I think the cooldown should be proportional to the nourishment.

    I definitely don't agree with 8. If you flip your vehicle, then you were driving recklessly.

    Point 2, I agree limited inventory needs to be addressed in some way. I prioritize getting the container in my save for this reason. It's simply annoying to deal with inventory until you get it.


    Point 10, I have found walking hard. In fact I seem to get stuck while walking at time. Mostly though, I fly with the jetpack, which means walking is not worth doing.

    More or less agree with the rest.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the additions! It's great if the devs can see which points seem to generate a consensus, and which might be only my subjective preference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merinsan View Post
    I definitely don't agree with 8. If you flip your vehicle, then you were driving recklessly.
    This is surprising though; it seemed that a lot of players were complaining about it (there is a Steam forum topic too). My own experience is that the collision behaviors are still undeveloped, and even if you hit a small bush (which should arguably be destroyed upon impact with vehicle) it can completely stop and potentially flip rovers. Also, the generated terrain seems to suffer from a lot of holes at the moment due to the cave system not being optimized (I presume), which seems to make it unreasonably difficult to drive without flipping. It would be helpful to get more comments about this, to see how do players feel generally.

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    * Reduce force/collision feedback when vehicles hit basic shrubbery?

    I think that would help allot.

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    I don't see any issue with #7, actually makes sense for me. Although I always was able to find enough food, so I haven't had to live on bio paste.

    Also kind of agree with Merinsan on #8. And the reason is that as I see, the majority of the flips are caused by bugs. Suspension bugging out on rough terrain, invincible bushes and such... So I think these should be addressed first. And once that is done, the problems with flipping a vehicle back is the deserved punishment for driving around carelessly Could be annoying, but that's what you get in real life as well, right?
    I made screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/D1FM7 \o/

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    well.. my opinion:
    1) ok, why not, everybody can change that if needed/wanted
    2) no need to increase inventory if some storage will be available earlier in the game, we are not mules, are we?
    3) no - it's motivation to upgrade your stuff, don't hide that
    4) agree - this block unlocking is against whichever logic - all blocks should be possible to build without any unlocking
    5) not needed, but why not
    6) there is a tool batteries indicator... it even shows total capacity of batteries in your backpack... didnt you see those two numbers around your tool on HUD?
    7) disagree - i like this functionality.. even in reality you cannot eat whatever amount of food
    8) disagree - if you flipped your vehicle, you did something wrong - even if it was only a bush what flipped you.. do you drive through the bushes with your car in real life? you could be surprised, how strong those can be ;-)
    9) agree - torque is really pain as it is now
    10) I have no problm with moving as it is now.. when you are tired, you can easily help yourselve with jetpack.. but if you see this as important, then I have no prob with character being a bit faster

    What else is problem in my point of view:

    - planet is too "shattered", there are holes and caves everywhere, not very real.. :-)
    - animals AI needs to be reworked.. they just stay there and look on you when you are killing them.. :-)
    - we need aerial craft! :-)
    - we need a real gun!! :-)))
    - plant growing could use some love to be more realistic.. like you grow one plant of one seed and there should be some continuity (even player grown plants should produce some seeds).. to balance that you can for example prolong the growing time
    - and finally - please, please, please DEV don't do this game any easier than it is now.. it's pretty much good as it is by terms of difficulty..

    edit: just some corrections
    Last edited by Robertak; 08-05-2017 at 10:25 PM.

  10. #10
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    Flipping vehicles is not always because you did something wrong at all. Often a hole (or even cliff) is noticed too late and that's it, your stuck. If you walk you can use the jetpack to aviod these dangers, but with a vehicle you can'. Another very common is when you try to drive up a mountain and you get stuck halfway through do to lack of torque. At that point you start sliding and before you know it your vehicle is upside down.

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    yup, Benjamin, you have named perfectly what could you do wrong.. ;-)))

    anyways, theres one more thing I would like see in game.. maybe I'm just dumb, but I did not find a brakes, when driving a vehicle.. sure you can revers, but having brakes would be so cool.. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertak View Post
    yup, Benjamin, you have named perfectly what could you do wrong.. ;-)))

    anyways, theres one more thing I would like see in game.. maybe I'm just dumb, but I did not find a brakes, when driving a vehicle.. sure you can revers, but having brakes would be so cool.. :-)
    I'm not doing anything wrong that's the problem. I'm simply driving a vehicle in low speed and when it decided to slide because of a low hill and flip over, that's not my fault. As long as these vehicles lack grip and torque and fall into every stupid small hole they should just drive over (or indeed have breaks as you say) driving will be a bad experience. That's not my bad, it's the way the game is designed.

    Knowing that a lot of people have these issues, is obviously showing that vehicles way too easy flip over. We all know it's an issues and it's very annoying that now suddenly one person comes in accusing all of doing something wrong when the fault is not theirs at all.

    Before the major update, the vehicles actually did work way better and you could actually get somewhere with them. I even went from all the way north to all the way south, pole to pole, with a vehicle before Sandy was redone. It wasn't perfect, but it worked. We now know that you could never drive from pole to pole in a vehicle with this version. You will get stuck sooner or later.... end up in space.... or flip over. That's not due to us doing something wrong, that's because the vehicles do not respond well to the terrain. That needs improvement. There's nothing wrong with driving up a mountain, that should work. If not, vehicles will always be useless, since flat terrain is now rare in the game.

    Let me put it this way, when you manage to drive a vehicle from pole to pole in this version without getting stuck or flipping over when you should have flipped over at all, we'll talk again, (when show us that you have through a nice lengthy video). Until then, I'm totally going to ignore your out of place 'we're doing something wrong' comments. We all read the plenty of driving is frustrating comments around here and stories about people abandoning their vehicles, because they don't react well to the terrain.

    We're trying to improve the game here and when so many people encounter the same issues, that shows there's room for improvement. When these driving issue aren't fixed in the early access release, you can count on many angry people at Steam. They have been quite a few already and the game hasn't even been fully released yet. Most of the backers are very forgiving, the people who pre-ordered are less forgiving and from experience we all know that once the game is released those who buy are often relentless when they face game breaking issues. Flipping over and lack of torque will become those game breaking issues if they can't be solved properly.
    Last edited by Benjamin (ShadowFlightBA); 09-05-2017 at 01:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertak View Post
    well.. my opinion:
    ...
    7) disagree - i like this functionality.. even in reality you cannot eat whatever amount of food

    My thinking was that in real life we can normally fill ourselves fully without breaks. But I guess the point of contention here is what does the "nutrition = 100" equate too, i.e. whether it means something more extensive than being full with a big meal. (This suggestion is not supposed to go against the survival aspect of the game - there are hard core survival games without this forced waiting, see e.g. The Long Dark.)

    Btw, not strictly related, but there was an interesting article recently about hunger and thirst on PC Gamer:
    http://www.pcgamer.com/how-survival-...how-to-fix-it/
    Last edited by GaborB; 09-05-2017 at 01:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GaborB View Post
    My thinking was that in real life we can normally fill ourselves fully without breaks. But I guess the point of contention here is what does the "nutrition = 100" equate too, i.e. whether it means something more extensive than being full with a big meal. (This suggestion is not supposed to go against the survival aspect of the game - there are hard core survival games without this forced waiting, see e.g. The Long Dark.)

    Btw, not strictly related, but there was an interesting article recently about hunger and thirst on PC Gamer:
    http://www.pcgamer.com/how-survival-...how-to-fix-it/
    Very interesting article and yes, it's on of the reasons why I love Grav (and some others like it) no need for foraging, but still being able to play survival and focus on other things. Hope the devs can read this as well, there some good points in it how to improve it. I know we're getting difficulty levels eventually and I would mind if easy gets rid of hunger and thirst, allowing us to focus on other stuff instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GaborB View Post
    My thinking was that in real life we can normally fill ourselves fully without breaks. But I guess the point of contention here is what does the "nutrition = 100" equate too, i.e. whether it means something more extensive than being full with a big meal. (This suggestion is not supposed to go against the survival aspect of the game - there are hard core survival games without this forced waiting, see e.g. The Long Dark.)

    Btw, not strictly related, but there was an interesting article recently about hunger and thirst on PC Gamer:
    http://www.pcgamer.com/how-survival-...how-to-fix-it/
    Great article and big true is, thirst is way more important than hunger.
    The more you know, the crazier you look.

    My screenshots from PN.

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    Re the vehicle flipping discussion above:

    Honestly, I didn't consider that it might be intentionally punitive when the vehicle flips. Even if that is the case, having to deconstruct, rebuild and re-set a whole vehicle seems way to harsh (and tedious) of a punishment for flipping over, especially considering that the terrain generation and the vehicle physics is still in development.

    The way I was thinking is that later we'll have thruster blocks (and possibly gyroscopes or something similar?) to help out, just like in Space Engineers, where you have a lot of tools to solve flipping issues. And if that's the case, why make it a nightmare for early players, especially at an already touchy game launch?

    (Btw, I was thinking about suggesting that they could add a rudimentary thruster or gyro block or something similar to help, but I wanted to keep the suggestions easy to implement, so I didn't include anything that seemed complex.)
    Last edited by GaborB; 09-05-2017 at 10:08 AM.

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    Benjamin, you don't need to be so offended.. I never said the vehicles are without any problems.. Of course they need some attention of development team as they do not respond well in many cases, just flipping itself is not an issue in my eyes.. I had many problems with vehicles - starting with brakes absence, going through falling into holes due to insufficient grip/brake (reverse) force, continuing with insanely low torque.. but to be honest I did not flip the vehicle on its roof even once (if you don't count vehicle lying on its roof in deep canyon you fell into, which is not really problem of flipping rather then you fell there).. maybe you could try to drive a real off-road vehicle and figure out how insanely easy is to flip it over in real world.. in my eyes the game is even very forgiving when we talk about vehicle flipping over.. and again - that does not mean I'm sayin "vehicles are perfect"!

    - - - Updated - - -

    in fact I thing that many problems occured when "caves" were implemented to planet.. as the planet is now way too much shattered, so you can hardly cruise it even in some tanklike vehicle..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertak View Post
    Benjamin, you don't need to be so offended.. I never said the vehicles are without any problems.. Of course they need some attention of development team as they do not respond well in many cases, just flipping itself is not an issue in my eyes.. I had many problems with vehicles - starting with brakes absence, going through falling into holes due to insufficient grip/brake (reverse) force, continuing with insanely low torque.. but to be honest I did not flip the vehicle on its roof even once (if you don't count vehicle lying on its roof in deep canyon you fell into, which is not really problem of flipping rather then you fell there).. maybe you could try to drive a real off-road vehicle and figure out how insanely easy is to flip it over in real world.. in my eyes the game is even very forgiving when we talk about vehicle flipping over.. and again - that does not mean I'm sayin "vehicles are perfect"!

    - - - Updated - - -

    in fact I thing that many problems occured when "caves" were implemented to planet.. as the planet is now way too much shattered, so you can hardly cruise it even in some tanklike vehicle..

    Objections duly noted I agree with your update, the terrain isn't suitable for vehicles anymore... but it sure is more interesting and varied then before. I'm just waiting for thrusters now, that would make tavel better.

  19. #19
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    I am having a problem with finding an optimal location in terms of seed since the 0.5.4 update. I agree with the dynamic of having herbs and fruitage being from different sources, but needing herbs to purify water makes farming an endless grind when these different resource points are so scattered.

    I think as per point 1 in GaborB's post some pre determined locations where it is not impossible to survive are needed urgently to keep Survival mode playable.

    Also the sleeping pod should be among the first buildable items. Some cheat codes will also help to mitigate game issues, that is if a problem is identified use the cheat to bypass the issue and communicate why we have used a cheat.

    Does anyone have a good seed to help with this seed issue till this is fixed in an update?

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    Quote Originally Posted by victorbb View Post
    Does anyone have a good seed to help with this seed issue till this is fixed in an update?
    I'm using the seed "Pandora". With this seed the pod is directly placed in a large ore vein, on a side of a hill. The hill top and the hill bottom has 2-3 fruit trees, and around 4 more to the left of the pod (100-200 meters, I think). (The down side is that right from the pod there is a huge hole you can fall into.) I built my base directly on the hillside, close to the ore veins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin (ShadowFlightBA) View Post
    ... I agree with your update, the terrain isn't suitable for vehicles anymore... but it sure is more interesting and varied then before. ...
    I'm also happy with the more varied terrain. Holes are a pain with vehicles, and sometimes even with jetpack, but I wouldn't want to turn the cave system off.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by victorbb View Post
    Does anyone have a good seed to help with this seed issue till this is fixed in an update?
    I use MONUMENTS! as seed. That will place you near a lake, so there's water. There are 2 fruit and 2 herb plants to the north, 1 fruit an 1 herb plant to the east and 3 fruit plants to the south in ~300 meters. An ore vein is right next to the landing pod and other veins are quite easy to find nearby. Also the snowy biome starts just 1K away to the north where I found a lot of Xaenite. So much, I was able to go from Mk1 gear to Mk4 right away.
    Downside is that the starting point is close to water level, so no deep mines and there is a Godillo and a bug nest nearby, so you probably want to get rid of those as soon as possible to avoid "accidents"
    I made screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/D1FM7 \o/

  22. #22
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    A good seed is "Beethoven". Plenty of fruit around and a lot of resources. Plus a big lake.

    I am trying more composer names... "Bach" was a bad one.

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    One little remark about seeds..... if you use it on a different PC your pod lands somewhere else

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin (ShadowFlightBA) View Post
    One little remark about seeds..... if you use it on a different PC your pod lands somewhere else
    But... It shouldn't... I tried one of a youtuber's seed, who started on a very buggy terrain and I started on the same place.
    I made screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/D1FM7 \o/

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    Quote Originally Posted by fura View Post
    But... It shouldn't... I tried one of a youtuber's seed, who started on a very buggy terrain and I started on the same place.
    I tried that as well and ended up somewhere else. I also tried my own seed from 0.5.1, when 0.5.4 was released and I ended up somewhere totally different as well.

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